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For Trinnov + Control4 + Lumagen owners

Assume I have a Blu Ray player attached to the one of the Lumagen inputs which is in turn attached to HDMI 4 of the Trinnov. BUT, I have defined two different "sources" in the Trinnov. One is called BluRay Movies and the other is BluRay Music. And within "Source Config" for BluRay Movies I have assigned Preset 5 and for BluRay Music I have assigned Preset 6 [as well as other choices like up-mixer, etc]. Since (apparently) the C4 addresses the physical HDMI inputs vs my defined "source" name, will I need to have the C4 assign the Presets, up-mixing choices, etc vs doing so in the "Source Config" section? And if so, each time I choose to use another preset for that input, I would have to call my C4 guys to make the changes?


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Assume I have a Blu Ray player attached to the one of the Lumagen inputs which is in turn attached to HDMI 4 of the Trinnov. BUT, I have defined two different "sources" in the Trinnov. One is called BluRay Movies and the other is BluRay Music. And within "Source Config" for BluRay Movies I have assigned Preset 5 and for BluRay Music I have assigned Preset 6 [as well as other choices like up-mixer, etc]. Since (apparently) the C4 addresses the physical HDMI inputs vs my defined "source" name, will I need to have the C4 assign the Presets, up-mixing choices, etc vs doing so in the "Source Config" section? And if so, each time I choose to use another preset for that input, I would have to call my C4 guys to make the changes?


Thanks
Back before I took my theater down for upgrade, I used one preset for front row movies, one for front row music and one for back row music, the last one I preferred for music. Each preset saved whatever choices I made for that preset including upmixing! Just gotta love it!
 

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Back before I took my theater down for upgrade, I used one preset for front row movies, one for front row music and one for back row music, the last one I preferred for music. Each preset saved whatever choices I made for that preset including upmixing! Just gotta love it!

Thanks. I am aware of those capabilities and wonderful features but am trying to figure out the way that I need to activate them with Control4/Lumagen/Trinnov. Prior to the Lumagen, it was not a big deal.
 

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You can just use one Lumagen HDMI input for the blu ray player; and use separate Alt32 presets for blu ray music vs movies as you like! I used the same Alt32 music presets regardless of whether playing via ROON or my blu ray player.
 

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The Trinnov bass management is so flexible that you don’t need to address this in a binary manner. The LFE channel can be played through all subs and optimized as one large subwoofer. The front sound stage, surrounds and tops/heights can be crossed over to more localized subs. What works best is probably very room dependent and a matter of preference. In my HT I have the L,C,R, Front Heights, and Wides crossed over to the 2 stacks of 4 front subs. The Right surrounds and tops are crossed over to the right wall sub (across from MLP) same for the left. The LFE is optimized through all subs. At least in my case, I don’t feel the bass is lacking, while it seems to add a little more directional impact in the surrounds and tops.

If you are taking the approach of calibrating you’re subs as one large speaker, shouldn’t you redirect your surround bass output to ALL subs , in keeping with this calibration ?
 

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If you are taking the approach of calibrating you’re subs as one large speaker, shouldn’t you redirect your surround bass output to ALL subs , in keeping with this calibration ?
You would need to ask Walter on that, my understanding is its done booth ways. The LFE is optimized as a 4way, the others are crossed over to individual sub(s) and the channel(s) are optimized separately,
 

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You can just use one Lumagen HDMI input for the blu ray player; and use separate Alt32 presets for blu ray music vs movies as you like! I used the same Alt32 music presets regardless of whether playing via ROON or my blu ray player.

I understand. And I still can "manually" select Presets and upmixer, etc now. But prior to the Lumagen, since each "logical" source has its own Trinnov HDMI input, the assignment of presets, up-mixers, etc could be set up as shown in the example below and were automatic upon selecting the proper source.



 

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WOOPS! I don' t have an answer for that.
 

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I understand. And I still can "manually" select Presets and upmixer, etc now. But prior to the Lumagen, since each "logical" source has its own Trinnov HDMI input, the assignment of presets, up-mixers, etc could be set up as shown in the example below and were automatic upon selecting the proper source.



You can create multiple sources with same HDMI input (you are not selecting HDMI input via remote (or IP control system); you are selecting source).


Then set desired Listening Format and Optimizer Preset for each individual source (using same HDMI input connector, or any other input).

This is Trinnov, everything can be configured ;)
 

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Assume I have a Blu Ray player attached to the one of the Lumagen inputs which is in turn attached to HDMI 4 of the Trinnov. BUT, I have defined two different "sources" in the Trinnov. One is called BluRay Movies and the other is BluRay Music. And within "Source Config" for BluRay Movies I have assigned Preset 5 and for BluRay Music I have assigned Preset 6 [as well as other choices like up-mixer, etc]. Since (apparently) the C4 addresses the physical HDMI inputs vs my defined "source" name, will I need to have the C4 assign the Presets, up-mixing choices, etc vs doing so in the "Source Config" section? And if so, each time I choose to use another preset for that input, I would have to call my C4 guys to make the changes?


Thanks
On the Sources Config page, In Trinnov parlance, those are "Profiles". Other manufacturers might call them Virtual Inputs or such. Each Profile contains the source input, decoder setting, start volume, Optimizer preset etc. You can create a whole bunch of Profiles, and most often I set up Profiles just like you have. The Bluray source could be either named Bluray Movie or bluray Music, and not only call a different Optimizer Preset, but a different Listening Format (DSU vs Auro3D for example), along with a specific User EQ, and call that Bluray 70's Music. So yes, you will need to have your C4 programmers create buttons for each Profile you configure, if you want all of that to be automatic. The other option would be to have the C4 program always call a single Profile (since all of your sources hit the Altitude on one HDMI input from the Lumagen) and then use a browser or VNC app to adjust those parameters when needed, which I find much less confusing for clients who want that level of control. That many options can clutter up a small touchscreen pretty quick. Or some mix of the above.

With great Power comes great Flexibility, and Complexity. ;)

In the Crestron world, I can read those Profiles (and Presets) from the Altitude, and adjust the "Source List" dynamically. Most of my clients aren't creating their own Profiles though, so it mostly just slightly decreases my programming time. If I make a change in the Altitude, I don't always have to adjust the Crestron program or GUI.

No reason C4 couldn't do that also, but I don't know if their module does that.
 

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On the Sources Config page, In Trinnov parlance, those are "Profiles". Other manufacturers might call them Virtual Inputs or such. Each Profile contains the source input, decoder setting, start volume, Optimizer preset etc. You can create a whole bunch of Profiles, and most often I set up Profiles just like you have. The Bluray source could be either named Bluray Movie or bluray Music, and not only call a different Optimizer Preset, but a different Listening Format (DSU vs Auro3D for example), along with a specific User EQ, and call that Bluray 70's Music. So yes, you will need to have your C4 programmers create buttons for each Profile you configure, if you want all of that to be automatic. The other option would be to have the C4 program always call a single Profile (since all of your sources hit the Altitude on one HDMI input from the Lumagen) and then use a browser or VNC app to adjust those parameters when needed, which I find much less confusing for clients who want that level of control. That many options can clutter up a small touchscreen pretty quick. Or some mix of the above.



With great Power comes great Flexibility, and Complexity. ;)



In the Crestron world, I can read those Profiles (and Presets) from the Altitude, and adjust the "Source List" dynamically. Most of my clients aren't creating their own Profiles though, so it mostly just slightly decreases my programming time. If I make a change in the Altitude, I don't always have to adjust the Crestron program or GUI.



No reason C4 couldn't do that also, but I don't know if their module does that.
If you are using QSC Q-SYS for control I expect you might be able to do something similar if you have access to the Trinnov TCP/IP Control commands by creating a Text Controller.

I wrote one for StormAudio ISP which works well with input, volume, source codec information etc feedback. Would be surprised if Trinnov wasn't equally capable especially if can already do it from Crestron or Control4. Someone with access to a Trinnov would need right the Control block in Q-SYS.
 

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Assume I have a Blu Ray player attached to the one of the Lumagen inputs which is in turn attached to HDMI 4 of the Trinnov. BUT, I have defined two different "sources" in the Trinnov. One is called BluRay Movies and the other is BluRay Music. And within "Source Config" for BluRay Movies I have assigned Preset 5 and for BluRay Music I have assigned Preset 6 [as well as other choices like up-mixer, etc]. Since (apparently) the C4 addresses the physical HDMI inputs vs my defined "source" name, will I need to have the C4 assign the Presets, up-mixing choices, etc vs doing so in the "Source Config" section? And if so, each time I choose to use another preset for that input, I would have to call my C4 guys to make the changes?
Hm, this should actually work without a problem.
Using the programming api, switching inputs actually means switching "source configs". So in terms of the control unit, you still trigger "HDMI1" or "HDMI2", but in fact you´re switching the source config defined for that "slot", not the physical input. And in the source config, you can assign the acutal HDMI1 hardware input to both configs (as you already know).

I´ve just tested it with Crestron, but since the control protocol is the same for all, i would be surprised if that wouldn´t be the case for using Control4.

EDIT: I just saw that berland actually stated the same, but i didn´t see his comment buried between the screenshots :rolleyes:
 

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You can create multiple sources with same HDMI input (you are not selecting HDMI input via remote (or IP control system); you are selecting source).

That is the way the Trinnov remote works but not (according to the folks who do my C4 work) how the C4 works. It selects the physical input. If my guys are incorrect, I would most certainly like to know that.
 

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So yes, you will need to have your C4 programmers create buttons for each Profile you configure, if you want all of that to be automatic. The other option would be to have the C4 program always call a single Profile (since all of your sources hit the Altitude on one HDMI input from the Lumagen) and then use a browser or VNC app to adjust those parameters when needed, which I find much less confusing for clients who want that level of control. That many options can clutter up a small touchscreen pretty quick. Or some mix of the above.
Thanks. So you are saying that what they told me was incorrect and that there is a way for them to access "profiles" or as I called them, "sources"?

The VNC approach is what I am now doing. Not a HUGE deal but I have always preferred that my system be 100% wife operable by just using the remote (though I can't think if there was ever a time when that has been necessary:eek:)
 

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Thanks. So you are saying that what they told me was incorrect and that there is a way for them to access "profiles" or as I called them, "sources"?

The VNC approach is what I am now doing. Not a HUGE deal but I have always preferred that my system be 100% wife operable by just using the remote (though I can't think if there was ever a time when that has been necessary:eek:)
Absolutely. They may just not have understood the request. In the C4 driver, they are called Inputs and are listed by the original name (HDMI1, HDMI2, etc) and you will need to tell them which Input to call.
 

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Thanks. So you are saying that what they told me was incorrect and that there is a way for them to access "profiles" or as I called them, "sources"?

The VNC approach is what I am now doing. Not a HUGE deal but I have always preferred that my system be 100% wife operable by just using the remote (though I can't think if there was ever a time when that has been necessary:eek:)
You only can access profiles from a remote. They are just numbers in the actual code and align with the long list available and shown in the GUI. Starting with the first called HDMI 1 and ending with Roon. You can set them up to as needed and obviously rename. SJ
 

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You only can access profiles from a remote. They are just numbers in the actual code and align with the long list available and shown in the GUI. Starting with the first called HDMI 1 and ending with Roon. You can set them up to as needed and obviously rename. SJ

I get that. The issue was that my integrator was accessing physica HDMI inputs and not profiles or sources.
 

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I get that. The issue was that my integrator was accessing physica HDMI inputs and not profiles or sources.
Profiles are directly related to physical inputs. There actually isn't a way to call a specific input on the Altitude in their API. The C4 module calls them inputs and has them named to match the default names on the Sources Config page. In the API, they are actually just Profile 0 thru Profile 28 I think. (I believe less on the Altitude16, since it has fewer physical inputs.)

By default, until you edit Profiles, Profile 0 is HDMI 1, Profile 1 is HDMI 2, etc. and selects the same physical input as the name. As you know, every profile can be edited to select any physical input you'd like. Technically, you could have 29 Profiles all selecting HDMI 7, and then different presets etc defined in that Profile. Your programmer would only need to know what you named them so the remote has the same names, and which number Profile. They would just have to count down the list, instead of matching the name though. In the C4 module, HDMI 4 is the fourth "input", which is Profile 3 (starts at 0, remember). Your Profile might be name Bluray Music Auro3D, but to the C4 programmer, it is just HDMI 4.

Since all your sources are connected to the Lumagen with a single output to the Altitude, you would have multiple Profiles all selecting the same HDMI input. If you wanted, you could duplicate every source on the Lumagen as it's own Profile, with a Startup Volume, Preset, Listening Format etc.

Since I am usually programming the Crestron system, I handle most of those settings in the control system, but having a Profile for every source on the Lumagen works just as well, and lets end users like yourself make changes to what the Profile does without calling your programmer.

Making sense?
 

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Absolutely. They may just not have understood the request. In the C4 driver, they are called Inputs and are listed by the original name (HDMI1, HDMI2, etc) and you will need to tell them which Input to call.

Thanks. I will let them know.
 

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I get that. The issue was that my integrator was accessing physica HDMI inputs and not profiles or sources.
The control interface (IP/Serial) does not allow this. Only the profiles....

Edit: looks like Adam provided a better response! :)

From the documentation:

• profile <source>
This command allows to change the current source (also known as profile) and thus select the active audio input. The argument is the source number, where the first source is number 0. This command is available since version 3.4.

SJ
 
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