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Saw this in our local media - probably posted somewhere else, but FYI:
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/amc-theatres-has-substantial-doubt-it-can-remain-in-business/

I have to admit some of my friends, even a few on AVS (ss9001 knows where I speak of), thought I was nuts to get a Trinnov Altitude and do HT in a condo in a hi-rise. But with an enclosed family room turned into a dedicated HT space, and the potential demise of local theatres with the virus, it looks like a MUCH better investment than it was four years ago.

Maybe we don't have the freedom to construct the room with best principles for sound isolation, or get the results that a Mikela or Audioguy get for dynamic range, but it still beats 99% of what the rest of the world and even hobbyists can do with enough direct sound and subwoofers in the right place, at least for one row of seats.

So you people on the fence lurking here, if you've the funds, end the pain, buy a Trinnov and sculpt your sound as best you can. Your ears won't be sorry.
 

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On the Sources Config page, In Trinnov parlance, those are "Profiles". Other manufacturers might call them Virtual Inputs or such. Each Profile contains the source input, decoder setting, start volume, Optimizer preset etc. You can create a whole bunch of Profiles, and most often I set up Profiles just like you have. The Bluray source could be either named Bluray Movie or bluray Music, and not only call a different Optimizer Preset, but a different Listening Format (DSU vs Auro3D for example), along with a specific User EQ, and call that Bluray 70's Music. So yes, you will need to have your C4 programmers create buttons for each Profile you configure, if you want all of that to be automatic. The other option would be to have the C4 program always call a single Profile (since all of your sources hit the Altitude on one HDMI input from the Lumagen) and then use a browser or VNC app to adjust those parameters when needed, which I find much less confusing for clients who want that level of control. That many options can clutter up a small touchscreen pretty quick. Or some mix of the above.

With great Power comes great Flexibility, and Complexity. ;)

In the Crestron world, I can read those Profiles (and Presets) from the Altitude, and adjust the "Source List" dynamically. Most of my clients aren't creating their own Profiles though, so it mostly just slightly decreases my programming time. If I make a change in the Altitude, I don't always have to adjust the Crestron program or GUI.

No reason C4 couldn't do that also, but I don't know if their module does that.

What control language do you use for the Altitude ? IR or RS232 ? Any experience with Crestron Home and Altitude ? I don’t think the Home OS3 has a Trinniv module yet for control


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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What control language do you use for the Altitude ? IR or RS232 ? Any experience with Crestron Home and Altitude ? I don’t think the Home OS3 has a Trinniv module yet for control


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I use the Trinnov IP protocol, although aside from some credentials, it is similar to the RS232 protocol.

I don't have any experience with Crestron Home OS3 however, as I program everything in the SIMPL environment.
 

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Hi. I will get my Altitude32 with 32 channels probably mid July with the new HDMI ARC Board.
First, I want to excuse if my english is far from being perfect. In fact, i am from Luxemburg, and english is not my native language 😙
I have 36 loudspeakers in my hometheater of +/- 40 m2, and wanted to ask if anybody of you had tried these new DTS:X bottom LS, and if so, what are your impressions? I do think, that actually these 3 (Lb+Cb+Rb) are only used with the Neural:X Upmixer. Difficult also to predict if any native material will follow in the future?
Actually, i have 18 ground speaker (3 front and 3x5 lateral+back) and 15 height speaker. 3x5 in a row, said left, center and right. My main front is 2x3 speakers, 3 above and 3 under a non-acoustic 4m (158 inch?) large screen.
I wanted to ask this question just to be prepared when the calibration guy will come along mid July. Knowing if i will prepare 3 bottom speakers for calibration or if i‘m just fine with my actual LS configuration for getting the best preset and also best after calibration results?
Thanks for reply.
 

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Newbie question incoming...

I just made the leap to the Altitude16. Incredible first couple of days getting used to the format and awesome imaging (even on upmix)! Have also listened to two Webinars. Wish there was downloadable print material too, but the discussions are excellent with Jon and David.

Did a 5-point calibration which went well.

However, I’m seeing all 11.2 channels light up on the input meter side, but 2 of the channels won’t fire on the output side (Ltr and Rtr). Just curious why they aren’t active on output when input is?

Thanks for any feedback.

Chris

Worked with Antoine remotely. Totally surreal experience (having someone in France actively review and edit my settings) that revealed 3D mapping being the culprit. Once 3D mapping was turned OFF, Ltr and Rtr speakers started firing again. Hope someone is helped by learning from my misstep. I’m sure I’ll have more, but I’m enjoying the learning while on the path to an eventual pro calibration.
 

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Posting here so my Tapatalk account can pick it up again. Need my daily fix of everything Trinnov :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Newbie question incoming...

I just made the leap to the Altitude16. Incredible first couple of days getting used to the format and awesome imaging (even on upmix)! Have also listened to two Webinars. Wish there was downloadable print material too, but the discussions are excellent with Jon and David.

Did a 5-point calibration which went well.

However, I’m seeing all 11.2 channels light up on the input meter side, but 2 of the channels won’t fire on the output side (Ltr and Rtr). Just curious why they aren’t active on output when input is?

Thanks for any feedback.

Chris

Worked with Antoine remotely. Totally surreal experience (having someone in France actively review and edit my settings) that revealed 3D mapping being the culprit. Once 3D mapping was turned OFF, Ltr and Rtr speakers started firing again. Hope someone is helped by learning from my misstep. I’m sure I’ll have more, but I’m enjoying the learning while on the path to an eventual pro calibration.
It would also be helpful to see your Optimizer Settings/Positions/Top View + Elevation View + Summary (for all speakers). Then we can see why this is happening when 3D mapping enabled.
 
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It would also be helpful to see your Optimizer Settings/Positions/Top View + Elevation View + Summary (for all speakers). Then we can see why this is happening when 3D mapping enabled.
Yep, that would help indeed. Otherwise is more or less guessing.
If i have to guess ;) i´d say the top middle are too close to side surrounds.
 

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It would also be helpful to see your Optimizer Settings/Positions/Top View + Elevation View + Summary (for all speakers). Then we can see why this is happening when 3D mapping enabled.
Yep, that would help indeed. Otherwise is more or less guessing.
If i have to guess /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif i´d say the top middle are too close to side surrounds.
Gents:
You are correct. The 3D remapping wasn’t needed due to positions defined post calibration. This is now sorted out.

Naming conventions across formats (Atmos, DTS:X, Auro) remains confusing - particularly during the calibration without a solid one-page cross-map key. However, my hope/understanding is now that once they are calibrated, the AL16 will direct the best signal to the available speakers without needing to toggle on the 3D remap feature.

Thoroughly enjoying the education. I’m literally taking notes as I reread posts on the Trinnov thread. Slowly, the abstract is becoming a bit more concrete...
 

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Gents:
You are correct. The 3D remapping wasn’t needed due to positions defined post calibration. This is now sorted out.

Naming conventions across formats (Atmos, DTS:X, Auro) remains confusing - particularly during the calibration without a solid one-page cross-map key. However, my hope/understanding is now that once they are calibrated, the AL16 will direct the best signal to the available speakers without needing to toggle on the 3D remap feature.

Thoroughly enjoying the education. I’m literally taking notes as I reread posts on the Trinnov thread. Slowly, the abstract is becoming a bit more concrete...
You "need" 3D remapping to support Atmos + DTS:X + Auro3D for the same layout in my opinion. They don't have the same position across the formats.

Also a side note; avoid 2D remapping unless you only use floor speakers. If you enable 2D remapping with ceiling speakers; weird stuff will happen :)

In addition, be careful about "over processing"; it will sound great - but overdoing it will actually destroy stereo perspective between each corresponding L and R channel (just my experience). Stick with the -10dB to +6dB limit set as default. Trinnov can handle way more aggressive processing, but there is a cost trying to completely remove the room. It actually sounds way better reducing the effect of the room instead of removing it completely. Same applies to overdoing number of IIR filters etc. The people working at Trinnov HQ knows what they are doing, there is a reason these are set to the current default values. So yes, you can change them, but you should be careful and know what you are doing.

So default values are not set by accident, be aware when changing these - there is usually a cost ;)
 

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You "need" 3D remapping to support Atmos + DTS:X + Auro3D for the same layout in my opinion. They don't have the same position across the formats.

Also a side note; avoid 2D remapping unless you only use floor speakers. If you enable 2D remapping with ceiling speakers; weird stuff will happen :)
I've only used Remapping on a handful of systems. Most of the rooms I work in are highly engineered environments, and since we are so poor at spatial accuracy, especially laterally and overhead, I only use that feature in special circumstances. Most of the research I have seen puts our hearing at +/- 20° to the side/rear/above and in some locations as high as 50°! That is an average across many test subjects. I'm sure some of you can do better, and will definitely be something I do some testing of my own in my Lab. And as the OP discovered, there are situations where 3D Remapping can disable speakers. So I find a narrow use case for the feature.

Can you expand on the weird things that will happen when enabling 2D remapping with ceiling speakers? Might be something else I test once the Lab is up and running.
 
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^^ Almost all of my speakers (11.x.10) are where they belong for Atmos (within a few degrees). I tried 3D re-mapping and it did not improve anything in my room with either DTS:X or Atmos (or Auro). In fact, it stopped using some of my speakers.

Once Adam gets his lab completed, I would love to visit him (I might be nice enough to wait for an invitation:D) for a number of reasons: (1) test to determine under what conditions 3D re-mapping works best; (2) bring along some less than "ideal" speakers for use as Atmos speakers and compare that to some more "ideal" speakers, and (3) compare different number of speaker configurations (i.e. 7.x.4 to whatever max he has in place). I've done the last test in my room (7.x.4 to 11.x.10) and got a different perspective when done blind vs sighted.
 

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^^ Almost all of my speakers (11.x.10) are where they belong for Atmos (within a few degrees). I tried 3D re-mapping and it did not improve anything in my room with either DTS:X or Atmos (or Auro). In fact, it stopped using some of my speakers.
Mine are also very close to "ideal" with the exception of the rears which are by necessity close together ala THX style due to a hallway. While I once tried 3D remapping, it didn't take long to realize that it wasn't needed. The effect was audible but subtle; and I wouldn't say it was better, just slightly different. I leave it turned off. My speakers are positioned around my seating as pairs at the same angles which were measured and seating is deliberately positioned to take into account angles & room dimensions. Some may not have that luxury so it's another useful tool in the toolkit.

For those who can't position pairs that closely, 3D remapping could be a good answer but there's the possibility of spurious results since phantom imaging is used between adjacent speakers in horizontal and vertical planes.

Early on, I did ask Trinnov & folks here if I could use it selectively on just my rears to help the rears image at a greater angle but 3D remapping applies to all speakers so it's all or nothing. I chose nothing; for my setup, it isn't needed. Plus it's more CPU processing with the possibility of audible soundfield quirks from the blending and phantom imaging. I'd rather listen to my speakers as located in the room since they are symmetrically placed and at or close to recommended angles anyway.

YMMV. To me, its benefit depends on the specifics of the room layout and compromises needed in speaker positioning.

And I wholeheartedly agree that hearing Adam's lab setup would be both highly educational and uber-cool! Once we're all vaccinated (whenever that'll be!) maybe he can be persuaded to host a post-covid lab demo :)
 

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And I wholeheartedly agree that hearing Adam's lab setup would be both highly educational and uber-cool! Once we're all vaccinated (whenever that'll be!) maybe he can be persuaded to host a post-covid lab demo :)
One of the main goals of the Lab is that it will be an open space. Since most of my work is for manufacturers, designers, integrators and end-users, I'd like to have the space available for anyone to visit. Some manufacturers have expressed interest in the concept as well. There will be some scripted demos that showcase different speaker configurations, the advantages of isolated rooms, lighting, probably some video stuff. Send money. :D
 

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^^ So Adam, given your travel schedule, do you have an estimated completion date for your Lab??
My goal is in the next 60 days. Framing, isolation clips, channel etc are finished. Electrical is roughed-in and inspections should happen this week. HVAC is also complete and just waiting on power and inspections. Drywall is next, then flooring and then I'll be ready to start hanging the soffits, which will be the space for all of the lighting, electrical and HVAC. Triangular truss will mount beneath the soffits, and will support the low voltage wiring, as well as the trolleys/linear actuators for the surrounds.

At this point, the 60 days is really just a function of cash flow. It could be completed in half that time probably.
 

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Can you expand on the weird things that will happen when enabling 2D remapping with ceiling speakers? Might be something else I test once the Lab is up and running.
Yes, for stereo source - Trinnov 2D mapping actually starts to move the L and R channels against the corresponding Lfh and Rfh. Both L and R are slightly above MLP with elevation of 5 degrees (+). According to Trinnov I was told not to use 2D mapping when ceiling speakers were involved in the setup - it just does not work. Both Lfh and Rfh are positioned on same azimuth as the L and R.

So the summary, 2D mapping enabled plays 2 channel source (CD) in mid air, L channel is placed between L and Lfh, while R channel is placed between R and Rfh. Activating 3D mapping leads to only L and R speakers being used for stereo source (as expected).
 
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