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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,


I'm trying to find a good HT speaker for either 5.1 or 7.2 that will be used mostly for gaming and movies. I was originally going to buy definitive technologies procinima 1000 whit a 2000 center. the sub I'm going to be using is svs pb-12 nsd and a denon 3313ci AVR. I just feel like I'm missing something or I'm choosing the wrong speakers. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Those mini-speakers are way too small for satisfactory HT sound unless your room is very small. An enclosure that is only 6 inches square is way too small.


I suggest that you consider getting four of the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speakers and the Wharfedale10CC center speaker.


That will cost you around $1000 from Music Direct, and those are WAY WAY better speakers; better-sounding and far more able to produce enough sound.


The ProCinema 1000 is overpriced and too small IMO. Also, their claim that they go down to 42 Hz is a bad joke. They MIGHT go down to around 65 Hz, but certainly no lower.


In any case, the Diamond 10.1 speakers have had outstanding reviews in Stereophile and other publications and are a very good choice for the money.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman  /t/1467916/troble-trying-to-find-the-right-speakers#post_23195390


Those mini-speakers are way too small for satisfactory HT sound unless your room is very small.


I suggest that you consider getting four of the Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speakers and the Wharfedale10CC center speaker.


That will cost you around $1000 from Music Direct, and those are WAY WAY better speakers; better-sounding and far more able to produce enough sound.


The ProCinema 1000 is overpriced and too small IMO.

I can agree with this. From everything I've read about Def Tech, they tend to stretch their specs a bit. So for the Pro monitor 1000's to be rated down to 42Hz, I find that hard to believe.


Also, I can agree with the Wharfedale Diamond suggestion. I have a pair of the Diamond 10.2's and they are great. They are very detailed and produce a huge soundstage.


But there are lots of good speakers to choose from. OP, what is your budget for speakers?
 

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Actually, the Def Tech specs on those speakers just say they go down to 42 Hz, without saying if they are 6db down or 10db down or what at 42 Hz, so that is not even a valid specification.


My bet is that they are 10db down at 42 hz, which is ridiculous. That essentially means zero output. The -3db point is the point at which the speaker puts out half power relative to the linear part of its range, which is the normal spec. for the rolloff point.
 

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You can beat up on them all you like. Or you can listen to them. I agree with the sentiment that DefTech's FR specs are misleading, and I don't understand why they persist in this practice -- but that doesn't change how good their speakers sound.


The truth is that the ProMonitor 1000 is an excellent small speaker. You can get equivalent sound by buying something bigger for somewhat less money, or you can get better sound by buying something more expensive, but you'd be hard-pressed to find something the same size that sounds as good.


In an appropriately-sized room (say, 2000 cubic feet or less), and an appropriate listening distance (8-10 feet or less), with that SVS sub, crossed over at 80 or 100Hz, I'd stack the PM1000 and PC2000 against anything in their size class, and most speakers in their price class. The biggest weakness of full ProCinema system is the sub that comes with it, and the OP already has that covered.


These are speakers designed to meet the need for good sound in small enclosures. Commsysman's assertion that this is not achievable has been disproved many times over, and these DT speakers are just one example.
 

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The Def Tech's probably do sound fine. Althought I technically agreed with Commsysman's post, I wasn't saying the Def Tech's couldn't sound fine. I was more in agreement with his opinion on their stated frequency specs. Which, compared to other speakers in their price range, is a bit of a disappointment. Making false claims about your product's performance are a turn-off for me.


Yes, these are desgined to be stylish speakers that provide good sound quality for a small size. But for the same amount of money you could purchase larger speakers that could provide a much bigger and complete sound stage. A speaker's size does have an impact on the sound it produces. This isn't the only thing affecting sound quality, but it is a factor.


OP, with your budget you have a few options for very good systems.


Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's with Diamond CS center. $997


Wharfedale Diamond 10.2's as fronts, Diamond 10.1's as surrounds, with Diamond CS center. $1,097

(Little over budget, but very worth it.)


Ascend CMT-340's for fronts, 340 center, and CBM-170's for rears. $1,118

(Little over budget, but worth the upgrade)


There are other options out there. These are two that I looked at hard for the price range I was in. I also looked at Focal Chorus 706V's. Those too would be very good, but over your budget.


You could also spend that $1000 on just a front stage and purchase surrounds later on. Up to you really.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid  /t/1467916/troble-trying-to-find-the-right-speakers#post_23196541


The Def Tech's probably do sound fine. Althought I technically agreed with Commsysman's post, I wasn't saying the Def Tech's couldn't sound fine. I was more in agreement with his opinion on their stated frequency specs. Which, compared to other speakers in their price range, is a bit of a disappointment. Making false claims about your product's performance are a turn-off for me.


Yes, these are desgined to be stylish speakers that provide good sound quality for a small size. But for the same amount of money you could purchase larger speakers that could provide a much bigger and complete sound stage. A speaker's size does have an impact on the sound it produces. This isn't the only thing affecting sound quality, but it is a factor.


OP, with your budget you have a few options for very good systems.


Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's with Diamond CS center. $997


Wharfedale Diamond 10.2's as fronts, Diamond 10.1's as surrounds, with Diamond CS center. $1,097

(Little over budget, but very worth it.)


Ascend CMT-340's for fronts, 340 center, and CBM-170's for rears. $1,118

(Little over budget, but worth the upgrade)


There are other options out there. These are two that I looked at hard for the price range I was in. I also looked at Focal Chorus 706V's. Those too would be very good, but over your budget.


You could also spend that $1000 on just a front stage and purchase surrounds later on. Up to you really.

I like the Ascend speakers you posted. What do you mean worth the upgrade, from the procinima or the Warfedales?


I was originally drawn to the DefTech's due to their compact size and the price. What's a good budget for HT speakers?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by upod21  /t/1467916/troble-trying-to-find-the-right-speakers#post_23196650


I like the Ascend speakers you posted. What do you mean worth the upgrade, from the procinima or the Warfedales?


I was originally drawn to the DefTech's due to their compact size and the price. What's a good budget for HT speakers?

I meant going with the larger Wharfedale 10.2's over the 10.1's as fronts would be worth the price increase. I'm inclined to say that either the 10.1's or 10.2's would be upgrades over the Procinema 1000's, but I haven't heard the Def Tech's.


If you're concerned with size then the Def Tech's may be a good option for you. The Wharfedale Diamond 10.2's are pretty big. The Ascends are also somewhat big compared to the DefTech 1000's.


Whatever you're willing to spend is a good budget for HT speakers. $1,000 for 5 speakers will get you a good setup. Not just good for the money, but good period. I wouldn't call that a "budget" setup or cheap by any means.
 

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You could get a 5 channel Arx A1b for under your budget, shipping included. Two pairs of A1b bookshelfs and a single A1b center channel for around $850-900 including shipping.


From the reviews the Arx A1b is very similar to the Ascend 170SE. Both perform very similar with neither one upping the other in any meaningful way. Other than the Arx is alittle cheaper.

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/manufacturers.php?mPath=13 The single A1b's tweeter can rotate for horizontal use as a center channel.


A1b's response is +/- less than 2dB from the low forties (45hrz) to beyond 20kHz. Not bad for a $299 bookshelf.
 

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Well I think a quality receiver is need. If this one has all the options the OP wants plus it has great amps then I don't see much issue. Receivers tend to get upgraded much less than speakers, so if the OP decides to go with an all bookshelf system but then later decides on big towers and center for the front he'll already have a great receiver.


Actually I would probably take the Onkyo TX-NR818 over the Denon 3313 just cause of the Audyessy XT32 in the Onkyo and its about $150 cheaper than the Denon on Amazon.
 

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Well if I were the OP I would take that $2-2.2K and spend approx $600 on a quality receiver and the rest on LCR speakers + sub. Then buy some cheap rears, and upgrade to better rears later if desired. But that is just me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24  /t/1467916/troble-trying-to-find-the-right-speakers#post_23196774


Well I think a quality receiver is need. If this one has all the options the OP wants plus it has great amps then I don't see much issue. Receivers tend to get upgraded much less than speakers, so if the OP decides to go with an all bookshelf system but then later decides on big towers and center for the front he'll already have a great receiver.


Actually I would probably take the Onkyo TX-NR818 over the Denon 3313 just cause of the Audyessy XT32 in the Onkyo and its about $150 cheaper than the Denon on Amazon.

You're right I did buy the receiver planing on future use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD  /t/1467916/troble-trying-to-find-the-right-speakers#post_23196871


Well if I were the OP I would take that $2-2.2K and spend approx $600 on a quality receiver and the rest on LCR speakers + sub. Then buy some cheap rears, and upgrade to better rears later if desired. But that is just me.

I already have the sub, which is the SVS PD12-NSD. What LCR speakers would you recommend?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by upod21  /t/1467916/troble-trying-to-find-the-right-speakers#post_23197403


I already have the sub, which is the SVS PD12-NSD. What LCR speakers would you recommend?

The rule of thumb that I like is one should spend 3x as much on speakers as you do on your receiver.


And there are a ton of speakers out there. I recommend doing a lot of reading on different speakers, and even better listening to different speakers. If you have a BB Magnolia showroom nearby you they have lots of speakers that you can listen to. But the way they sound in your home listening environment will be a bit different from how they sound in the store.


Personally, I bought myself a pair of B&W 683s and right now I have a "phantom center channel" (i.e. I don't have one). Although I may buy the matching B&W HTM61 center channel if I can figure out how to re-arrainge my console to fit it in somewhere. I really like the way they sound.


Some people love internet direct companies. You can find a lot of names by browsing these forums. Other people choose mass market brands that you find in big box retailers among other places. It is really a personal decision, because nobody has your ears, and I don't recommend buying based only upon other peoples opinions.


If you are planning to buy better speakers in the not too distant future keep in mind that many internet direct brand speakers have very low or no resale value. B&W's tend to retain a lot of their value, as can be seen by searching old ebay or audiogon sales. Good luck!
 

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General guideline seems to be spend the majority of the budget on speakers but you want to make sure you end up with a receiver that has the features your looking for. Room correction (huge difference between 2EQ on the lower models and XT or XT32 on the higher end) video processing, networking options, multi zone ect....


My receiver to speakers is about 60% speakers 40% receiver. About $2k in speakers and $900 in receiver. I got great sounding speakers and a receiver loaded full of all the options I could ever want. He still has a healthy speaker budget and can get some great options and with the subwoofer already a done deal, I say jump on a receiver with all the options and features the OP would want.


6months from now you don't want to "wish" you had this or that feature you thought you wouldn't need.


If the op isn't worried about refurbs he can save a several hundred and pick up this one http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR818/Onkyo-TX-NR818-7.2-Ch-THX-Certified-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html Add that extra 300 to his speaker budget and still get a feature loaded receiver with quality amps too.
 
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