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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So here is what I've noticed... after several months of going to stores and playing with settings ona variety of TVs... comparing both LCDs and Plasmas. Just making sure the money I spent is exactly what I want...


Here is what I've noticed... for Plasmas and LCDs with local LED dimming... when you get the brightness set so that "black" areas of the screen are "Black"... it's so dark in the dark areas that you completely lose all the detail of the black area... Yes Plasma TVs too!


Let me further explain... You see a man in a black suit, with black hair, in a less than half-lit scene (in a car, or a dark room...). When the black areas are at that level of "True Black", you cannot see the small details anymore... you cannot see lapels on the suit, the hair on the person's head, or the legs under the table in the background.... (just examples)... But if you brighten the scene up enough to see the detail of those items (because they are supposed to be seen), then there is a light fuzzy "snow" effect (making it more like grey)... Although it is very light on Plasmas and Local dimming LEDs... it's still annoying.


Am I the only one this picky?? Or are there other people seeing the same thing??
 

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A well designed local dimming system, and/or a properly calibrated display doesn't do this.

My HX900 shows all shadow detail down to black for example.


Plasmas have poor gradation capabilities and often do lose fine details near black, even the Kuros, when viewing real content rather than test patterns that only show a dark grey box on a black background. They do fine in isolated tests like that but look at real content and shadow detail is missing when the set has to do more than just draw two shades next to each other.
 

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No, I don't agree. Remember that these displays look better at home (versus in a brightly lit store).
 

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In general, most displays will benefit quite a bit from calibration. If you do not want to have it professionally done, try one of the discs. Note it is very important to get the grey scale correct. If properly calibrated, many displays are capable of providing decent black renditions without crushing the black. If you cannot see any details in the black, the set needs to be calibrated. Simply adjusting brightness is not enough. The brightness, contrast and grey scale all need to be set properly to maximize the display output. Also, the calibration needs to be done in roomlight which is going to be typical for viewing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP
No, I don't agree. Remember that these displays look better at home (versus in a brightly lit store).
True... but I'm also see the same effect on my LCD TV, which has local dimming, and my buddy's Panasonic Plasma (ST30)... As I said... it's very slight when it's balanced just right, but still annoying.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by wessew10
In general, most displays will benefit quite a bit from calibration. If you do not want to have it professionally done, try one of the discs. Note it is very important to get the grey scale correct. If properly calibrated, many displays are capable of providing decent black renditions without crushing the black. If you cannot see any details in the black, the set needs to be calibrated. Simply adjusting brightness is not enough. The brightness, contrast and grey scale all need to be set properly to maximize the display output. Also, the calibration needs to be done in roomlight which is going to be typical for viewing.
Thanks... any recomendation on which calibration BluRay to get?? I know the most popular are "Spears and Munsil" and "DVE"
 

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I think it term in play here is "crushing", ie, the blacks are being crushed from too much light being cast through the black LCD's, raising their brightness level and limiting lowest black level, apart from the full black area that are locally dimmed. FlatpanelHD always goes into black level vs. shadow detailing in their reviews. The Sharp LE835 i recently tried does shadow detailing really well, but almost too well really, like the gamma curve is wrong. I almost didn't even need my flashlight in dark games like Metro 2033.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist /forum/post/20904721


A well designed local dimming system, and/or a properly calibrated display doesn't do this.

My HX900 shows all shadow detail down to black for example.


Plasmas have poor gradation capabilities and often do lose fine details near black, even the Kuros, when viewing real content rather than test patterns that only show a dark grey box on a black background. They do fine in isolated tests like that but look at real content and shadow detail is missing when the set has to do more than just draw two shades next to each other.

How did you come to this conclusion? There isn't a single experienced and respected calibrator that would agree with you. Some sets have poor gamma tracking and will either clip beyond white or below black which is a flaw in the design of the set, not the technology.
 

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He's just posting FUD.


A properly adjusted set will display all the detail. A big box store is about the worst place to look at a panel, but that is about all there is nowadays. A decent calibration disk is a staring point, but many panels do not let you adjust the more critical controls, for that you need a pro. If I were buying today, I'd buy big and moderate priced and have a pro calibrate it. My pro calibrated plasma is stunning, and the difference was dramatic. A Pro will wring every big of performance out of your set. If you can budget $300 or so do it. BTW I DO NOT mean Best Buy calibration, stay far far away from that bunch.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism /forum/post/20906262


How did you come to this conclusion? There isn't a single experienced and respected calibrator that would agree with you. Some sets have poor gamma tracking and will either clip beyond white or below black which is a flaw in the design of the set, not the technology.

Measurements taken using Calman Professional, a spectrophotometer and a colorimeter.
 
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