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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having seen true high definition of 1920 x 1080p at the CES on a large CRT font projector at the T.A.W booth (showing off their 'Rock' scaler) and on a smaller digital model by a 22" samsung LCD at the MIT booth , I am craving and anticipating something in between for HTPC use and HDTV viewing, hopefully in 2002.


With TI taunting their table-top 2nd generation DLP of 1280 X 720 with a contrast of 1200:1, they are almost there, but not quite. The same applies for the highest resolution 60" plasmas from zenith, marantz and runco at 1280 x 720.


With costly front projectors and the phillips CRT HDTV with 9" guns aside, I was wondering if 1920 x 1080 would ever be affordable and practical for everyday home use.


The JVC .9" QXGA LCOS chip due out this year is the hypothetical answer. There was no mention of this at the CES and most seems to be as much a pie in the sky as the SXGA (1365 x 1024) has been since their press release of the D'Ahlia in September, 1999.


When asked about the application of this chip for HDTV use, a JVC rep replied, "While our 1.3" QXGA device is not cost effective for lower priced HT applications, there are plans

on our product roadmap to introduce a 0.9" QXGA or 1920x1080 device that would be entirely practical

for upper end HT products. "


The question remains, how 'upper' is 'upper end'. Are they referring to only front projectors or the use of the chip in a RPTV?


Gary Merson mentioned very briefly in The Perfect Vision that the D'Ahlia is "the first of many DILA-based HDTV rear projectors that have been announced or will be announced soon by leading manufacturers of high definition sets."


With a 50" DLP samsung at $4000 giving 1280 x 720 all day long, JVC would be hard pressed to have an outrageous price tag when, and, if, it comes available.


The lack of any information at the CES by JVC is peculiar. It makes you wonder what's up their sleeve.


Looking at the diagram of the .9" chip on the JVC website, it appears to be 16:9. Could this be an affordable and practical all-digital RPTV in the making?
 

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According to previous posts here, 1440x800 is the about the most one can get ota at this time. This has to do with recorders and cameras and filtering. A current 9" gun RPTV is probably suffficient
 

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Bring on the 1920x1080p displays please!


Lets not sell ourselves short by saying

that we want displays that are

"just good enough" for Today's signals.


As cameras (and other equipment) improve

over time it would be nice to have a display

ready to take full advantage of all the detail.
 

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Gary Merson's prediction is obsolete. Instead of a torrent of such products, we'll see only a trickle of LCOS/D-ILA RPTVs. And you can get this clear now: They will never gain more than a toehold. DLP is going to come on superstrong this year (late) with real products that are production ready.


Plasma prices continue to fall and pressure from the top.


LCOS/D-ILA status for '02 is as follows:


* JVC D'Ahlia is their only product in this space. It essentially is not in production, or at least not being imported at this time. Doubt me? Find a store with one in stock. Can do? (I don't even think so). OK, find 10 stores.


* RCA Scenium L5000 allegedly shipping soon. Emphasis on allegedly.


* Toshiba demo at CES. No product intro date.


* Viewsonic 36" demo at CES. Focus on PC market.


That's it.


A whole lotta nothing.


I do believe we'll see 4-6 new DLP-based RPTVs introduced in 2002 to join the Panasonic and Mitsu that are already shipping.


Mark
 

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rogo-


The D'Ahlia is available, I bought one in September last year. Not a lot of people sell it and I don't think anybody stocks it but I found one retailer locally that had a display model and could get it in 4 weeks. I ended up buying it from an Internet retailer, it was shipped direct from JVC in Southern California and I saved over $3000. ;)
 

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I was reasonable impressed with the TOshiba LCOS demo at the show. I was also led to believe that it would be introduced in Q4 with a price tag around 10k for what appeared to be about a 60 - 64" diagonal 16:9 screen size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I did find a competing LCOS HDTV with toshiba but only a 55" and only 1280 x 720p which would be comparable to the current DLPs, but has a crappy contrast ratio at 350:1. It is a chinese company named Huxian. , anybody heard of it?


The specs on their 55" HDTV are listed here


They list a cool chart comparing OLED to LCOS to DLP, etc.


Still no mention of 1980 x 1080 resolution. The .9" QXGA D-ILA chip is the only one so far I have found to stake those claims.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Gkouri:


I can't find jack on toshiba LCOS. One tiny segment in a press release in the Day 2 CES newpaper said this: " Noted (Scott) Ramirez (vice president of marketing): Digital displays are the future. We are very excited about our expanded flat panel line-up, as well as our growing family of plasma displays. And our upcoming LCoS-based projection TV is being engineered to provide the best projection TV picture quality ever seen. These upcoming products will offer image quality and features that will literally reshape expectations about what television can be."



No mention of resolution or size..... Nutin.
 

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Does anyone know what the OEM price for the actual DMD chips or LCOS chips are from TI or JVC to a projector manufacturer ? I'm wondering if it's the cost of the DMD device or the surrounding electronics or someone's proprietary de-interlacer that makes the latest round of projectors that everyone is all giddy about cost $6000-$12000. I did lots of searching on the internet, but just couldn't find anything about OEM pricing of these parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Just got an e-mail from Huxian, which cleared up some things. Apparantly their website is not accurate, because of some nuances between chinese and english translation.


The actual contrast on their 55" LCOS HDTV is actually 1300:1, which is even better than the 2nd generation DLP's of 1200:1.


They also mentioned that the HDTV will have the capacity to range between 50 and 70", and that they are researching QXGA resolution and would expect to be competative with this LCOS chip.


Still not much information about toshiba's LCOS. :(
 

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"Gary Merson's prediction is obsolete"


I offer my contraposition.


Fact: Toshiba will offer a LCOS in 2002 with very high resolution. (Hint -not what was displayed at CES) Find more in the next issue of The Perfect Vision


Fact: Apex will have a LCOS HD RPTV, find out more in TPV


Fact: JVC will have their line show next month, stay tuned


Fact: JVC has a announced a new Home Theater DILA front projector, available soon


Fact: A major television mfg. will be producing LCOS engines and will probably offer one or more HD RPTVs in 2003


Fact: RCA has started shipping their LCOS
 

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Cool news... It is hard to keep track of these

things because there are so many alliances,

partnerships, buyouts, etc among the manufacturers.


For instance:

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2.../page_07.shtml

"• In a strategic alliance with ADVANCED DIGITAL OPTICS of Westlake Village, California, Apex will introduce family of rear projection displays using

alternative high resolution technologies including Liquid Crystal on Silicon (LCOS)."

http://www.sid.org/news/archive/industrynews0102.html

"Viewsonic Buys Advanced Optical Engineering


Walnut, California, January 30 - ViewSonic Corporation today announced that it has

acquired the assets of Advanced Optical Engineering, Inc., a Los Angeles area

technology firm that specializes in the development of optical subsystems and light

engines for use in digital projection displays.


The organization will operate as a wholly owned subsidiary of ViewSonic under a new

name, "ADVANCED DIGITAL OPTICS, Inc." "This acquisition allows ViewSonic to make a

quantum leap forward in bringing the latest digital display technology to the

marketplace," said James Chu, chairman and CEO of ViewSonic Corporation.

"Advanced Digital Optics brings us a world class group of digital display specialists,

strengthening our ability to aggressively pursue new opportunities in display

technology and products."


The new subsidiary will specialize in the development of light engines for digital

projection displays including digital cinema, front projection and rear projection, using

LCOS, DMD, and LCD technology. Milton Lee, formerly president and chief operating

officer of Advanced Optical Engineering, Inc., will become president and CEO of

Advanced Digital Optics, Inc.


"By combining the competencies of ViewSonic and ADO, we are better positioned to

rapidly deploy new and innovative digital technologies and products," said Marc

McConnaughey, senior vice president of ViewSonic's Advanced Technology Group.

"We will be able to initiate product designs and implement production much faster

than through the ordinary product development cycle."


As a ViewSonic subsidiary, Advanced Digital Optics, Inc., will continue to design and

develop light engines used in projection displays for outside customers, which

include IMAX, JVC, and Prokia. "

http://www.techmall.com/techdocs/TS010427-2.html

"ViewSonic® Corporation and Cogent Light Join Forces to

Optimize Imaging Chips For Next Generation Visual Displays


Micro Illumination® Technology Enables Bright, High-Resolution, Low Cost

Displays


WALNUT and SANTA CLARITA, Calif., April 26, 2001-- ViewSonic

Corporation, a leading worldwide Visual Technologyâ„¢ provider and Cogent

Light Technologies today announced the licensing of Cogent's Micro

Illumination® technology. Incorporating this technology in future

generations of front and rear projection digital displays will produce bright,

high resolution, low cost displays for use in the home or business.

"This agreement with Cogent Light is the latest step in our development of

projection technology for use in future products," said Marc McConnaughey,

senior vice president of Advanced Technologies for ViewSonic. "ViewSonic can

now optimize the performance of smaller digital imaging chips, delivering

brighter and lower cost projection display products to the market."

These projection displays will include future releases of high-definition

televisions, smart televisions and computer monitors utilizing liquid crystal

on silicon (LCOS) imagers beginning in 2002.

"As an innovator in the field of visual displays, ViewSonic leads the

growing list of companies licensing our patented designs for projection

applications," states Dennis Davis, president of Cogent Light Technologies.

"These designs are enabling the market shift to LCOS technologies and smaller

imagers, which will result in a wider selection of high-performance television

and computer monitors for consumers and significantly reduced component costs

for manufacturers."

Cogent Light will work closely with recently acquired ViewSonic

subsidiary, Advanced Digital Optics, Inc. (ADO) of Westlake Village, Calif.,

to design and develop the light engines to be used in the newest generation of

ViewSonic projection displays.

"The combination of ViewSonic's infrastructure, ADO's development

capability, and Cogent Light's platforms will offer our customers and partners

a significant advantage in the digital display technology arena," states

Milton Lee, president of ADO."

...etc...

http://www.mdreport.com/press/35updfeb142002.htm

"Feb 14, 2002 - Norwalk, CT - Insight Media has released its latest edition of its company profile on

Three-Five Systems, which is part of the LCOS Producer Profile Series. This comprehensive

40-page report, compiled by accessing sources within the company, their suppliers and customers, has

been updated to incorporate recent developments such as Q4'01 financial results, the acquisition of

Zight, a new relationship with China Display and other news.


Three-Five remains committed to establishing LCOS displays in projection systems and Thomson is

now starting to ship the RCA L50000 Scenium HDTV with Three-Five panels inside. The acquisition of

Zight's patents and assets provides new momentum in LCOS near-to-eye applications. However, the

company's microdisplay revenue goal will be stretched out about a year. It now expects to earn perhaps

$15M to $20M in microdisplay revenue in 2002.


The Three-Five Systems LCOS Producer Profile report reveals that the manufacturing infrastructure

for LCOS-based products is still maturing, and as a result, is causing delays in product introductions.

Three-Five is having their own difficulties improving yield and test throughput on its LCOS panels, but

continues to make headway.


The company report also details Three-Five's relationship with several of its key customers,

including Thomson/RCA, China Display, InFocus, 3M, ADO, inViso and others. Also profiled are

Three-Five's LCOS manufacturing operations, capacity and run rates, current challenges and complete

details about the company's full line of LCOS Brillian microdisplays.


While Three-Five faces challenges, it is financially strong, well managed and has an excellent

LCOS engineering and manufacturing team. It is committed to being a key player in the fledgling LCOS

arena, where we expect more consolidation. Will Three-Five be a survivor? "

http://www.tlcinternational.com/appl...lays_apps.html

"...

On the projection front, there was even more exciting news. Perhaps the most important development at the show was the sequential color recapture

(SCR) technology announced by Texas Instruments (Dallas, Texas). The technique, when commercialized, perhaps as early as mid-2002, could give a

40 percent brightness boost to DLPâ„¢-based 1-chip projection systems at a modest increase in cost and complexity.

...

JVC (Kanagawa, Japan) is probably the leader in LCOS panel and projection-system technology at this time. At SID, they showcased their expanding

line of D-ILAâ„¢-branded LCOS panels, including a 1.3-inch Quad-XGA (2048x1536) panel intended for digital-cinema applications. But the company

is also accelerating development of smaller and lower-cost panels. It recently decided to emphasize development of a 0.5-inch WXGA (136x768) panel

for use in either 16:9 HDTV products or 4:3 PC-TV products. This panel should be ready by early 2002.


Interest in 0.5-inch projection microdisplays is heating up because reducing the size of the panel and optical system is an important way to reduce the cost

of these systems. Three-Five Systems (Tempe, Arizona) has a 0.5-inch XGA LCOS panel, too, and shortly after SID the company announced that the

panels would be used with several other components to produce a small-footprint optical engine for projection systems. Color management will be

provided by ColorLink (Boulder, Colorado) using a new "mini ColorQuad" design. New lamp reflectors from Cogent Light Technologies (Santa

Clarita, California) will increase the efficiency of coupling light onto these smaller panels. Advanced Digital Optics (Westlake Village, California), a new

division of ViewSonic, will concentrate on engine design and integration.


Three-Five also announced a new name for their line of LCOS panels: Brillian. At SID, it

unveiled the Brillian 1920, a 0.85-inch WUXGA (1920x1200) panel, and the Brillian 768, a

0.7-inch WXGA (1280x768) panel. The WXGA panel will sample in Q3; the WUXGA panel

should reach production in early 2002. The company believes this WUXGA product will

become one of the most cost-effective LCOS microdisplay systems offered for high-resolution

applications.


Aurora Systems (San Jose, California) says it is now shipping sample quantities of its latest

LCOS display, the ASI 3200. The 0.72-inch panel, which has 1024x768 pixels, is being

targeted for rear-projection applications. A trio of these panels were integrated in a 50-inch TV

demonstrator, which Aurora hopes to license to system integrators. The company has received

major funding from Taiwan-based UMC and is part of a consortium headed by UMC. This

group includes several Taiwanese projection-system developers that are intensely focused upon

LCOS systems.


While shipments of such LCOS panels and projection systems remain small - only several thousand systems will be shipped by the end of 2001 --

volumes are expected to be significant in several years.


Meanwhile, LCOS-panel developer SpatiaLight (Novato, California) jumped back into the spotlight at SID with the announcement that it had forged an

engine-manufacturing deal with Japan-based Fuji Photo Optical Co. Fuji has agreed to scale up its manufacturing capabilities to support the production of

10,000 LCOS-based light engines per month. SpatiaLight has not yet revealed a customer for these engines, but has confirmed the engine will be used in

rear-projection monitors and high-definition televisions. A 50-inch HDTV demonstrator was on display at the company's booth at SID. The company's

new 0.71-inch WXGA panel is sampling now with production slated for the end of 2001. This is a milestone for SpatiaLight. Fuji is already recognized as

one of the best engine manufacturers in Japan, where it is also working with Displaytech on a single-panel engine design.


Samsung Electronics America (Ridgefield Park, NJ) was demonstrating 43- and 50-inch HDTV units featuring three LCOS panels from Displaytech.

These sets survived four or five product introduction delays and were set to launch in August 2001. Ironing out production issues has clearly taken longer

than anticipated.


Sister company Samsung Electro-Mechanics Company showed their 25-inch SXGA monitor in the Three-Five booth. This product looks good but

may not be commercially produced. It may be that a resolution upgrade to UXGA will be needed to compete with direct-view TFT monitors in this size

range. But the rear-projection monitor could be cheaper, and with only a modest penalty in footprint size.


Supporting technologies for the microdisplay industry were also detailed in papers and in booths at SID. For example, Philips Research Labs (Aachen,

Germany) showed a new UHP lamp design that features a small cavity outside of the main chamber. The cavity is used to pre-charge the gas, and Philips

believes it will lead to smaller, more efficient lamp systems.


After two years of quietly developing and sampling customers with it's compact ColorCorner LCOS

engine architecture, Unaxis (Balzers, Lichtenstein) has finally begun to promote the assembly publically.

Unaxis uses a polarizing beam splitter (PBS), several optical elements, and two ColorSelect Filters from

ColorLink to form the basis of a three-panel LCOS engine. Final products using the ColorCorner system

from at least two, and perhaps four, companies are possible in 2001, says Unaxis.


A new kind of polarizer, called a Wire Grid Polarizer (WGP), was officially unveiled by Moxtek (Orem,

Utah). A WGP is constructed by forming a series of closely-spaced aluminum bars on a glass substrate.

This grid reflects light of one polarization state (p) while transmitting light of the orthogonal polarization

state (s). This is different from conventional polarizers, which transmit and absorb light in orthogonal

polarization state. This reflective property, coupled with the device's rugged construction, enable a host

of new uses in projection systems.


Microdisplay technology and applications will continue to remain a fertile area for innovation with the

potential for market-reshaping products. Insight Media's recently-released LCOS 2001 Industry Report,

for example, documents 21 different LCOS projection-engine architectures. In addition, there are

probably half a dozen architectures for the other two microdisplay projection technologies (high-temperature polysilicon and DLP), so the pace of

innovation is furious. Microdisplay rear-projection systems may be late to the dance, but they're coming - and they're coming with bells on.

"





(note - some of the above content has been excerpted

from copyrighted web sites. Please visit the

URLs if you wish to see the complete document

and the copyright messages)
 

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 http://investor2.cnet.com/newsitem-i...WSG&Ticker=TFS

"Three-Five Systems Family of Brillian Microdisplay Products on Show at CES

1/8/02 9:22:11 AM

Source: PR Newswire


TEMPE, Ariz., Jan. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- Three-Five Systems, Inc. (NYSE: TFS) today announced the company's first direct involvement at the

International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, Nevada January 8-11, 2002. Three-Five's participation at the event will include private

demonstrations of the company's highest resolution microdisplay, the Brillian 1920, and OEM demonstrations of products that are based on

Three-Five's Brillian Microdisplay.



Three-Five will be showing its Brillian 1920 Microdisplay in a 60-inch rear projection demonstration. With over 2.3

million pixels on a small 0.85" diagonal, the Brillian 1920 Microdisplay is Three-Five's highest resolution microdisplay

currently available. The Brillian 1920 is well suited for front projection applications, 1600 x 1200 and higher resolution

monitor applications and can address both HDTV formats: 1280 x 720 and 1920 x 1080 in progressive scan.


...

"
 

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From Toshiba News Page "And our upcoming LCoS-based projection TV is being engineered to provide the best projection TV picture quality ever seen. "


And Gary Merson said
Quote:
Fact: Toshiba will offer a LCOS in 2002 with very high resolution. (Hint -not what was displayed at CES) Find more in the next issue of The Perfect Vision
And of course the new three five chips and the topic of thread is TRUE HD at 1920 x 1080 for 2002...



Say it's so! Say it's so! :D
 

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My next display will definately be a fixed pixel display if they can develop one that will support 1080x1920 resolution and is less than $10,000. This is just a dream for now.


Scott
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Merson
"Gary Merson's prediction is obsolete"


I offer my contraposition.


Fact: Toshiba will offer a LCOS in 2002 with very high resolution. (Hint -not what was displayed at CES) Find more in the next issue of The Perfect Vision


Fact: Apex will have a LCOS HD RPTV, find out more in TPV


Fact: JVC will have their line show next month, stay tuned


Fact: JVC has a announced a new Home Theater DILA front projector, available soon


Fact: A major television mfg. will be producing LCOS engines and will probably offer one or more HD RPTVs in 2003


Fact: RCA has started shipping their LCOS
I'm not going to argue with you Gary, because certainly you have more inside info than me. I will state this list does not constitute a torrent of product, but more a trickle.


I'd also note that I have no doubt that JVC, et al., will continue to promote this technology for FPTV. FPTV is a tiny volume application that will find it's way into maybe 1:1000 houses over the next decade. I am much more interested -- personally -- in RPTV and flat-panel, which is how HDTV is going to be delivered in the U.S. for the rest of us.


I'd love to see Toshiba's set ship. I am skeptical because so far shipping anything in the LCOS/D-ILA/fLCD realm has been tricky. I do believe RCA is shipping; however, the quantities remain small and the performance remains unknown.


As for Apex, I'm struggling to see them sell too many $4K+ TVs regardless of production capabilities. As for someone building an engine, well let's see products, not technology.


You describe an opportunity for 3-5 products in 2003. We shall certainly see. I'd love to see it. Seriously. I'm just understandably skeptical, especially when people in this thread quote Samsung's fLCD product demo (when Samsung has long since killed that particular product).


I also believe flat panel is absolutely inevitably going to dominate in this space. There is no way RPTV will survive the assault of flat panel unless flat panel fails to deliver price and size that can compete. Certainly, today, RPTV has a price and size edge. But that appears set to wane each year for the next half decade and -- eventually -- the advantages may be so small as to not matter.


I know people here think that RPTV can thrive and survive against flat panels. I also am all-but certain their believe is mistaken. Women spend more than half the money in the U.S. and approve purchases like multi-thousand-dollar TVs in most households. They are overwhelmingly attracted to flat panels for their home friendliness, regardless of price in many cases. This doesn't even account for the rapid improvements in picture quality for plasma, the relentless march of LCD toward larger sizes, and the emerging technologies like OLED, inorganic EL, et al.


Bring on the LCOS sets. Please.


Mark
 

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While talking about technologies, some of which are a minimum of 2-4 years from being available to the consumer, don't forget about the Silicon Light Machines grating light valve technology that SONY has acquired for electronic cinema. SLM has the advantage of producing black levels that rival the best CRTs plus the ability to natively display 1080P and beyond.
 
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