True HDTV
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I think they want to differenciate themselves from Showtime since Showtime mostly shows upconverts. I would think it means the movie was mastered directly in true 1080i HD instead of unconverted. This of course has nothing todo with the aspect ratio.
bb
bb
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My Opinion here-
If they want to claim "TRUE HDTV" then it should be shot with HD Cameras, edit on HD video editors and distributed via HD signal. It's not "True HDTV" if it originated on film and was scanned into HDTV by a conversion process. That's just my opinion and I'm sure there are many who will disagree. and be able to work up all sorts of agguments to support the counter position. What I would prefer HBO did is to revert back to their slogo modified for HDTV- "It's not HDTV, It's HBO HD" In this way they are entirely justified in doing anything they want to make up a new version of the P&S HDTV film transfer.
If they want to claim "TRUE HDTV" then it should be shot with HD Cameras, edit on HD video editors and distributed via HD signal. It's not "True HDTV" if it originated on film and was scanned into HDTV by a conversion process. That's just my opinion and I'm sure there are many who will disagree. and be able to work up all sorts of agguments to support the counter position. What I would prefer HBO did is to revert back to their slogo modified for HDTV- "It's not HDTV, It's HBO HD" In this way they are entirely justified in doing anything they want to make up a new version of the P&S HDTV film transfer.
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Then this makes HBO even more hypocritical and two faced. If their so interested in differentiating themselves from Showtime and gather some bizarre pride by proclaiming "True HDTV", then they should at least be honest about their OAR policy.
It should read,
"True HDTV, False ASPECT RATIO--GO FIGURE"
| Originally posted by bb1987 I think they want to differenciate themselves from Showtime since Showtime mostly shows upconverts. I would think it means the movie was mastered directly in true 1080i HD instead of unconverted. This of course has nothing todo with the aspect ratio. bb |
It should read,
"True HDTV, False ASPECT RATIO--GO FIGURE"
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I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to assign this tag to movies transfered and presented in 1080i, particularly as they are trying to show themselves different from showtime, as previously mentioned. Maybe you mean this from a purely technical aspect.
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It amazes me just how rabidly anti-HBO some folks in this forum are. Given the few choices we all have for quality HD movie transfers, I think they do a great job; I especially appreciate them after now having access to ShowtimeHD.
Greg
| Originally posted by Don Landis My Opinion here- If they want to claim "TRUE HDTV" then it should be shot with HD Cameras, edit on HD video editors and distributed via HD signal. It's not "True HDTV" if it originated on film and was scanned into HDTV by a conversion process. |
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| Originally posted by JerryG It should read, "True HDTV, False ASPECT RATIO--GO FIGURE" |
Greg
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It means they have been faking it, and (presumably) are now sorry.
Originally posted by DeanS I was checking HBO's schedule (Grid View) and noticed that their HD movies are now labled "True HDTV." Does anyone know what this means? 1080i vs 480P? OAR vs Non OAR? Non upconvert vs upconvert?? Hmmmm....... |
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I would say it is true HDTV if the resolution is there from the original. Since
film has more resolution than HDTV, then that is certainly true. It would be
more accurate to debate if HDTV is "true film" (and it is debated a lot).
| Originally posted by Don Landis My Opinion here- If they want to claim "TRUE HDTV" then it should be shot with HD Cameras, edit on HD video editors and distributed via HD signal. It's not "True HDTV" if it originated on film and was scanned into HDTV by a conversion process. That's just my opinion and I'm sure there are many who will disagree. and be able to work up all sorts of agguments to support the counter position. What I would prefer HBO did is to revert back to their slogo modified for HDTV- "It's not HDTV, It's HBO HD" In this way they are entirely justified in doing anything they want to make up a new version of the P&S HDTV film transfer. |
film has more resolution than HDTV, then that is certainly true. It would be
more accurate to debate if HDTV is "true film" (and it is debated a lot).
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OAR zealots are like the communists; you generally agree with their
principles, disagree with their methods, and rapidly grow tired of their
retoric.
| Originally posted by HiDefGuy It amazes me just how rabidly anti-HBO some folks in this forum are. Given the few choices we all have for quality HD movie transfers, I think they do a great job; I especially appreciate them after now having access to ShowtimeHD. Greg |
principles, disagree with their methods, and rapidly grow tired of their
retoric.
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S.A. Moore,
being a 2.35 to 1 aficionado myself, I don't like the fact that HBO robs me of the way I like to watch that kind of movie, which is the way the director intended it to be shown at the movie theater.
The I-want-my-screen-filled crowd can always buy a HDTV set with a zoom function and away go the nasty black bars, but it doesn't work the other way round.
Well if that makes me OAR zealot then call me Josef OAR Stalin and live happily ever after in the free world where anybody can do any hack job he wants with a motion picture and where we all are so thankful that HBO at least doesn't show movies cropped to 4:3.
Jerry,
how about an insert before every cropped HBO movie:
We don't care about how the movie was shown in the theater and therefore have done our best to make the movie fill every square inch of your TV set, chopping off large slabs of movie content to the left and right of the picture.
Oliver Klohs
being a 2.35 to 1 aficionado myself, I don't like the fact that HBO robs me of the way I like to watch that kind of movie, which is the way the director intended it to be shown at the movie theater.
The I-want-my-screen-filled crowd can always buy a HDTV set with a zoom function and away go the nasty black bars, but it doesn't work the other way round.
Well if that makes me OAR zealot then call me Josef OAR Stalin
and live happily ever after in the free world where anybody can do any hack job he wants with a motion picture and where we all are so thankful that HBO at least doesn't show movies cropped to 4:3.Jerry,
how about an insert before every cropped HBO movie:
We don't care about how the movie was shown in the theater and therefore have done our best to make the movie fill every square inch of your TV set, chopping off large slabs of movie content to the left and right of the picture.
Oliver Klohs
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S.A. Moore - AMEN Brother!
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Wait a minute. You state that HBO robs you of the way you like to watch movies. How is HBO robbing you since you live in Germany and HBO does not service Germany.
So since you don't pay HBO any money you must be getting HBO tapes from some other source in order to make those comments, so it seems to me that it is not HBO robbing you of something, but it is you robbing HBO.
| Originally posted by Oliver Klohs S.A. Moore, being a 2.35 to 1 aficionado myself, I don't like the fact that HBO robs me of the way I like to watch that kind of movie, which is the way the director intended it to be shown at the movie theater. Oliver Klohs |
So since you don't pay HBO any money you must be getting HBO tapes from some other source in order to make those comments, so it seems to me that it is not HBO robbing you of something, but it is you robbing HBO.
I'm not much of an OAR zealot myself but it is too bad that HDTV displays and STB's were not first designed with better zoom options. If eventually all TV's had a good continuous user controlled horizontal and vertical zoom (with saved presets) then this entire problem would go away.
If HBO would know that folks had the option to view it how they wanted then there would be no real need to crop anything.
But on the upconvert issue ...
As far as an upconvert being called HDTV I am somewhat puzzled. It certainly seems that a good 1080i film transfer should qualify as HDTV. But I wish they would learn to transfer them better, and from better stock.
But I don't get Showtime and I'm confused about calling their upconverts HDTV. Are they just converting from 480i? Here in Detroit most stations convert almost all their regular programming from 480i to 720p or 1080i. But not by the wildest stretch would I call that HDTV. Are the Showtime upconverts somehow a better or different process? I've never seen one.
- Tom
If HBO would know that folks had the option to view it how they wanted then there would be no real need to crop anything.
But on the upconvert issue ...
As far as an upconvert being called HDTV I am somewhat puzzled. It certainly seems that a good 1080i film transfer should qualify as HDTV. But I wish they would learn to transfer them better, and from better stock.
But I don't get Showtime and I'm confused about calling their upconverts HDTV. Are they just converting from 480i? Here in Detroit most stations convert almost all their regular programming from 480i to 720p or 1080i. But not by the wildest stretch would I call that HDTV. Are the Showtime upconverts somehow a better or different process? I've never seen one.
- Tom
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I appreciate HBO. I appreciate their original movies which are in OAR since HBO commissioned those movies. But it amazes me how many people invested thousands of dollars in their equipment to see movies and then don't care if those movies are butchered. You don't care than HBO essentially censors these movies. You respond with bizarre theories about improved resolution with butchered movies that now fill your screen when many of you couldn't even tell the difference, even if it was true. You complain that you paid for a full screen and that's what you better get, but then you'll watch a 2.35 DVD and not say a thing. You guys are hypocrites.
You guys call me a zealot and a communist. I call you sheep. Are you afraid of offending HBO? Are you afraid of HBO turning off their HD feed? You so meekly accept butchering of movies saying that you don't really care that it makes me ill. Do you let the entire world shove things down your throats?
You want to call me a zealot and communist? Well, I'll strike back with equal vehemence and language. All I want is to see movies the way they were intended to be seen. I have strong feelings about that. I'm only asking for the truth. You people are accepting the fake, the gimmickry, the altered product, the censorship by HBO, the slap in the face by HBO who cares nothing about the integrity of the movie or the director's intent. Who's the fool here? It's not me. It's you people. And it's so sad how easily you accept being taken advantage of. You home theater fanatics have let your love of your equipment replace what should be a love and appreciation of the content. Some of you won't even watch a DVD anymore because you feel the quality stinks compared to HD. I really think many of you don't care at all about the content of the movie. Simply disgusting.
| HiDefGuy said: It amazes me just how rabidly anti-HBO some folks in this forum are. Given the few choices we all have for quality HD movie transfers, I think they do a great job; I especially appreciate them after now having access to ShowtimeHD. Greg |
| SAMoore said: OAR zealots are like the communists; you generally agree with their principles, disagree with their methods, and rapidly grow tired of their retoric. |
I appreciate HBO. I appreciate their original movies which are in OAR since HBO commissioned those movies. But it amazes me how many people invested thousands of dollars in their equipment to see movies and then don't care if those movies are butchered. You don't care than HBO essentially censors these movies. You respond with bizarre theories about improved resolution with butchered movies that now fill your screen when many of you couldn't even tell the difference, even if it was true. You complain that you paid for a full screen and that's what you better get, but then you'll watch a 2.35 DVD and not say a thing. You guys are hypocrites.
You guys call me a zealot and a communist. I call you sheep. Are you afraid of offending HBO? Are you afraid of HBO turning off their HD feed? You so meekly accept butchering of movies saying that you don't really care that it makes me ill. Do you let the entire world shove things down your throats?
You want to call me a zealot and communist? Well, I'll strike back with equal vehemence and language. All I want is to see movies the way they were intended to be seen. I have strong feelings about that. I'm only asking for the truth. You people are accepting the fake, the gimmickry, the altered product, the censorship by HBO, the slap in the face by HBO who cares nothing about the integrity of the movie or the director's intent. Who's the fool here? It's not me. It's you people. And it's so sad how easily you accept being taken advantage of. You home theater fanatics have let your love of your equipment replace what should be a love and appreciation of the content. Some of you won't even watch a DVD anymore because you feel the quality stinks compared to HD. I really think many of you don't care at all about the content of the movie. Simply disgusting.
The Showtime upconverts that I've seen are better to much better than what I see on the Detroit locals. But no, they're not HD.
Also, I posted this in one of the duplicate threads, but do you suppose that the "True HDTV" tag is a slap at "High Resolution"?
Also, I posted this in one of the duplicate threads, but do you suppose that the "True HDTV" tag is a slap at "High Resolution"?
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Hi Xs,
it's the other way round - I wouldn't watch these movies, because they are cropped.
Also, I was speaking in general terms (me the customer), watching HBO in Germany would be difficult for me, although not impossible.
To come back to the point of being robbed: Obviously there is only one way to watch these movies in HD: The HBO way or not watching it at all. So if HBO crops these movies I cannot simply go somewhere else and get a presentation in OAR, because there is none - not so nice, isn't it ?
Jerry,
you are right about the current equipment/technical orientation of many people that prefer cropped high definition to no high definition at all.
While it doesn't make me sick I agree it's a sad state of affairs, let's hope D-Theater will improve things.
Oliver Klohs
it's the other way round - I wouldn't watch these movies, because they are cropped.
Also, I was speaking in general terms (me the customer), watching HBO in Germany would be difficult for me, although not impossible.
To come back to the point of being robbed: Obviously there is only one way to watch these movies in HD: The HBO way or not watching it at all. So if HBO crops these movies I cannot simply go somewhere else and get a presentation in OAR, because there is none - not so nice, isn't it ?
Jerry,
you are right about the current equipment/technical orientation of many people that prefer cropped high definition to no high definition at all.
While it doesn't make me sick I agree it's a sad state of affairs, let's hope D-Theater will improve things.
Oliver Klohs
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The excuses people make for idiotic programming directors amazes me sometimes.
You're so desparate to see HD pictures on your screen, you'll forget yourself.
| It amazes me just how rabidly anti-HBO some folks in this forum are. Given the few choices we all have for quality HD movie transfers, I think they do a great job; I especially appreciate them after now having access to ShowtimeHD. |
You're so desparate to see HD pictures on your screen, you'll forget yourself.
I only watch movies with black bars.... Oh, that's right, I've got a 4:3 TV. Obviously I don't care if my screen is filled up. I definitely prefer to see a movie presented with all it's original content showing if you will. I'm not such a purist that I dislike the films that are shown open matted however. I know they are not the way the director intended but at least they are not taking anything away in those cases. Clearly there are many people here who are purists that care deeply about their obsession of choice. To each his own. SA, if you don't like it what the heck are you doing frequenting an AV board in the first place? Some of your comments the last couple of days just go to show the level of your thinking process. Perhaps you need to grow up a little.
ron
ron
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Really? I never agreed with communists of their principles, do agree with a few of their many methods, and never get tired of their rhetoric, and I want OAR. For some reason HBO now looks a lot like communist to me
| Originally posted by S. A. Moore OAR zealots are like the communists; you generally agree with their principles, disagree with their methods, and rapidly grow tired of their retoric. |
I like to watch movies in their original aspect ratios. But I'm not a purist. I've come to recognize that television is a different medium, and some film directors have understood this and reoriented their work to satisfy the demands of this "different" medium.
Movies in the theater are huge. Widescreen movies are particularly huge. All movies at home are quite small, and to tell the same story, you might have to bump up certain elements (just like you might have to bump up the volume in the center channel).
Just to be clear: I don't think the studios or HBO should edit, censor, or pan and scan movies just to fill a screen. But if directors want to rethink their work for home viewing, like Cameron and Coppola, and a little like Kubrick, then I think we should not complain. Soon enough (I feel) movies will all be made directly for home viewing, bypassing the movie theater entirely. When that happens, we'll have a different fight on our hands -- what aspect ratio do we really want our home television displays to be? 16:9? 2.35:1, or 2:1? Or will we keep 4:3 as a standard? All these issues are quite disorienting, and I do wish some board of standards would just declare it, once and for all.
Movies in the theater are huge. Widescreen movies are particularly huge. All movies at home are quite small, and to tell the same story, you might have to bump up certain elements (just like you might have to bump up the volume in the center channel).
Just to be clear: I don't think the studios or HBO should edit, censor, or pan and scan movies just to fill a screen. But if directors want to rethink their work for home viewing, like Cameron and Coppola, and a little like Kubrick, then I think we should not complain. Soon enough (I feel) movies will all be made directly for home viewing, bypassing the movie theater entirely. When that happens, we'll have a different fight on our hands -- what aspect ratio do we really want our home television displays to be? 16:9? 2.35:1, or 2:1? Or will we keep 4:3 as a standard? All these issues are quite disorienting, and I do wish some board of standards would just declare it, once and for all.
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All these issues are quite disorienting, and I do wish some board of standards would just declare it, once and for all.
They have, for HDTV it is 16X9 and for NTSC and SD it is 4:3
What Jerry and a few others are saying is that we prefer to watch a movie on our Home theater screens in the same aspect ration that the director intended it to be shown IN THE THEATER. I have said for a long time that the argument of "AS THE DIRECTOR INTENDED" is weak because the director is usually the one who DOES decide how his film will look on the tube. When the copyright holder licenses a film for air he at minimum, grants permission to alter the OAR for TV viewing. There is nothing I have ever read or seen that states HBO or others are violating copyrights in reshaping a movie for video viewing, therefore everything they do is within the copyright holder's permission and approval.
They have, for HDTV it is 16X9 and for NTSC and SD it is 4:3
What Jerry and a few others are saying is that we prefer to watch a movie on our Home theater screens in the same aspect ration that the director intended it to be shown IN THE THEATER. I have said for a long time that the argument of "AS THE DIRECTOR INTENDED" is weak because the director is usually the one who DOES decide how his film will look on the tube. When the copyright holder licenses a film for air he at minimum, grants permission to alter the OAR for TV viewing. There is nothing I have ever read or seen that states HBO or others are violating copyrights in reshaping a movie for video viewing, therefore everything they do is within the copyright holder's permission and approval.
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