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Truecut Motion coming in 2022?

6364 Views 18 Replies 13 Participants Last post by bryantc, 11 mo ago

fafrd

Discussion Starter · Jun 2, 2021

www.google.com

Will Motion Grading become a new cinematographic tool?

When Tom Cruise urged us all to switch off motion smoothing he knew it was mission impossible. Even if people do make the effort to retune the default setting on their TVs, the outcome is often worse.

www.google.com

‘Pixelworks says the format is supported by streaming services and suggests that announcements will made later this year. You’d expect that this at least one of Netflix, Amazon and Disney+.’

‘“We expect most new models [of any TV maker] coming to market from 2022 will support the format,” says Miller.’

‘In China, six features have been mastered using TrueCut Motion including Pegasus and The Bravest. Sony has also remastered Men In Black: International as a showcase screening for its theatrical LED screens.’

We’ll see if this ends up being featured as the new thing of 2022…

Among other things, take-off of this format will likely drive a premium for 144Hz refresh speeds…

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1 - 19 of 19 Posts

fafrd

Discussion Starter · #2 · Jun 2, 2021

More information about PixelWorks (including a couple slides on TrueCut): https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/sa_presentations/38/56038/original.pdf

8mile13

· #3 · Jun 3, 2021

..the industry’s first solution to give filmmakers the ability to cinematically fine-tune Motion Blur, Judder and Frame-rate appearance.

But it does not help 24fps problems with superfast pixel response TVs or does it?

BerserkDoomguy

· #4 · Jun 3, 2021

fafrd said:
Will Motion Grading become a new cinematographic tool?

When Tom Cruise urged us all to switch off motion smoothing he knew it was mission impossible. Even if people do make the effort to retune the default setting on their TVs, the outcome is often worse.

www.google.com

‘Pixelworks says the format is supported by streaming services and suggests that announcements will made later this year. You’d expect that this at least one of Netflix, Amazon and Disney+.’

‘“We expect most new models [of any TV maker] coming to market from 2022 will support the format,” says Miller.’

‘In China, six features have been mastered using TrueCut Motion including Pegasus and The Bravest. Sony has also remastered Men In Black: International as a showcase screening for its theatrical LED screens.’

We’ll see if this ends up being featured as the new thing of 2022…

Among other things, take-off of this format will likely drive a premium for 144Hz refresh speeds…

Your article states most sets from 2019 onwards should support this. So I wouldn’t say this is a new feature to be added per say. It essentially sounds like VRR for movies. I know this is a crazy thing to say here but movies should have ditched 24 frames a second a long time ago. It was only implemented because of crappy cameras back in the early 1900’s.

Reactions: 3

wxman

· #5 · Jun 3, 2021

BerserkDoomguy said:
Your article states most sets from 2019 onwards should support this. So I wouldn’t say this is a new feature to be added per say. It essentially sounds like VRR for movies. I know this is a crazy thing to say here but movies should have ditched 24 frames a second a long time ago. It was only implemented because of crappy cameras back in the early 1900’s.

Might be the death of UHD discs and UHD players. I wonder if the industry will even attempt to apply this to discs. If motion is significantly better with streaming, many may just give up on discs.

Reactions: 1

BerserkDoomguy

· #6 · Jun 3, 2021

wxman said:
Might be the death of UHD discs and UHD players. I wonder if the industry will even attempt to apply this to discs. If motion is significantly better with streaming, many may just give up on discs.

I mean it’s already niche and I believe physical media will continue its slow march towards death no matter what. The real issue here for both discs and streaming is data. The more frames per second, the more data that needs transferred.

Reactions: 1

KidHorn

· #7 · Jun 3, 2021

Motion blur is a much bigger issue with live sports than movies. Seems like this would be impossible for anything live. For sports, you would need a very high FPS rate and leave it at that for the entire broadcast.

Reactions: 1

lsorensen

· #8 · Jun 3, 2021

BerserkDoomguy said:
Your article states most sets from 2019 onwards should support this. So I wouldn’t say this is a new feature to be added per say. It essentially sounds like VRR for movies. I know this is a crazy thing to say here but movies should have ditched 24 frames a second a long time ago. It was only implemented because of crappy cameras back in the early 1900’s.

Well they had to balance the smoothness versus the amount of film to have to use (which takes space, size of reels, cost, etc). I guess with digital projection and distribution in theatres, the size has stopped being any concern.

Reactions: 1

fafrd

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 3, 2021

KidHorn said:
Motion blur is a much bigger issue with live sports than movies. Seems like this would be impossible for anything live. For sports, you would need a very high FPS rate and leave it at that for the entire broadcast.

I think this is pretty much cinema-specific.

For sports, SOE is not really a thing, so between cranking up the frame interpolation and cranking up the BFI, pretty easy to get down to 8ms MPRT (120Hz equivalent motion blur)…

Bruce Watson

· #10 · Jun 4, 2021

BerserkDoomguy said:
I know this is a crazy thing to say here but movies should have ditched 24 frames a second a long time ago. It was only implemented because of crappy cameras back in the early 1900’s.

Not what I remember. I researched frame rates decades ago (so I could well be wrong -- any corrections welcomed). What I remember is that in the early days (hand cranking cameras) there wasn't really any kind of standard frame rate, but the average was around 18 fps. This worked -- people came to the movies and bought tix to see them.

It wasn't until talkies that frame rate was both raised and standardized (they finally had electric motors that could be well controlled) at 24 fps. That was because the final prints included sound and picture side-by-side, and 24 fps was the minimum speed required to allow decent sound quality.

The thing that has held down frame rates since then is the cost of film and the cost of processing.

The thing to remember here is "crappy cameras in the early 1900s" did not hold down frame rates. What raised frame rates to 24 fps was the need to sync sound to picture for the theaters.

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BerserkDoomguy

· #11 · Jun 4, 2021

Bruce Watson said:
Not what I remember. I researched frame rates decades ago (so I could well be wrong -- any corrections welcomed). What I remember is that in the early days (hand cranking cameras) there wasn't really any kind of standard frame rate, but the average was around 18 fps. This worked -- people came to the movies and bought tix to see them.

It wasn't until talkies that frame rate was both raised and standardized (they finally had electric motors that could be well controlled) at 24 fps. That was because the final prints included sound and picture side-by-side, and 24 fps was the minimum speed required to allow decent sound quality.

The thing that has held down frame rates since then is the cost of film and the cost of processing.

The thing to remember here is "crappy cameras in the early 1900s" did not hold down frame rates. What raised frame rates to 24 fps was the need to sync sound to picture for the theaters.

Originally hand cranked movies were between 16 and 24 frames a second. Hand cranked films were 22 to 26 frames a second by the time movies with sound came along in 1927. People were used to that range of motion so 24 was chosen as the standard format. We’ve been stuck there ever since because people don’t like change. 😂

Frame rate - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ryan the Gamer

· #12 · Jun 4, 2021

If this tech is to be anything more than vaporware they better grab the attention of James Cameron and debut their brand to the masses via Avatar 2 with VRR/HFR. If they can swing that deal + solid marketing TV makers will take this tech very seriously. If not, this will probably die on the vine.

wxman

· #13 · Jun 4, 2021

Just start filming everything at 60 fps. People will get use to it, especially younger people. The older people like me who are use to 24 fps will die off soon enough.

JonW747

· #14 · Jun 9, 2021

wxman said:
Just start filming everything at 60 fps. People will get use to it, especially younger people. The older people like me who are use to 24 fps will die off soon enough.

Young people seem to enjoy hand drawn animation which is too expensive / time consuming to draw even 24 frames per second. For directors who would prefer a higher frame rate, 60 fps seems an obvious choice and first step, but production costs are still effected. New equipment, new workflows, more storage is needed, CGI scenes become much more expensive, etc.

8mile13

· #15 · Jun 10, 2021

What is the point of 60FPS movies when you have a motion resolution of 300 lines and needs to turn on Motion Interpolation and its sideeffects to get propper motion?

LiLAsN

· #16 · Jun 23, 2021

60 fps or even 120 fps animation, when done right, can be really smooth and provides clearer visuals especially the background when doing panning shots. Look none other than Rachet & Clank Rift Apart's opening scene / game sequence. Try playing that same opening scene at Fidelity mode (30 fps) and compare it to the RT Performance mode (60fps but sent through TV which is forced to run at 120Hz).

The opening scene is literally a cinematic. But an in-game cinematic. But it gives you the idea of the kind of clarity with very little motion blur or even a better implementation of motion blur for 3D animation movies that can be done when using a higher frame-rate. Rift Apart is an excellent showcase of 3D Animation movies. It looks even better actually. And the High Frame Rate mode for their cinematic in-game shots look truly spectacular and clearer than the stuttering and judder-heavy 30 fps.

So there is value to making movies play at higher than 24fps. Just that it has to be done right. Like Rift Apart's motion blur applied which is extremely non-intrusive and is applied at just the right moment. It seems great to turn it on. And it should be the standard of how motion blur is applied in movies. And not just reply in the poor 24f ps motion to create motion blur.

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Interpolation

· #17 · Jun 23, 2021

BerserkDoomguy said:
I mean it’s already niche and I believe physical media will continue its slow march towards death no matter what. The real issue here for both discs and streaming is data. The more frames per second, the more data that needs transferred.

Due to x265 compression optimization, doubling or quadrupling the frames per second doesn't increase the file size by that much.

As far as CGI, 30 fps can be interpolated to 60 or 120 using professional algorithms and any artifacts removed during production, which would probably be cheaper than doubling the source render frames/time.

SVP is still the best way to enjoy studio quality interpolation right now, which absolutely destroys any TV smoothing. You get more vector calculated frames instead of blended frames (less smearing/blurring), less frame skipping/dropping, better handling of fine details, and less artifacts, assuming you have appropriate hardware to turn the settings up.

SVP – SmoothVideo Project – Real Time Video Frame Rate Conversion

www.svp-team.com

Reactions: 1

th1nk

· #18 · 11 mo ago

Ryan the Gamer said:
If this tech is to be anything more than vaporware they better grab the attention of James Cameron and debut their brand to the masses via Avatar 2 with VRR/HFR. If they can swing that deal + solid marketing TV makers will take this tech very seriously. If not, this will probably die on the vine.

Sooo… about that:

https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/avatar-titanic-remastered-truecut-motion-110000070.html

bryantc

· #19 · 11 mo ago

So Hollywood has finally admitted the deficiency with 24fps. Why not just start shooting everything in 60fps now instead of this half-assed solution.

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