[schweich12]

Let me start off by saying that I realize there are dedicated threads to many brand and specific models of the Sony and Samsung LED panels. Unfortunately, I have discovered it is quite difficult to find general issue related content on these threads with most of them numbering in the 1000's of posts. I am hoping that I can get input from individuals on here about major know issues with performance, design flaws and production quality.


I have fiunally decided to upgrade from my Sony 52" LCD. I am looking at a couple of 60" LED TVs. Specifically, the Samsung UN60D6000, UN60D6300 and UN60D6400. I am also looking at the Sony KDL60EX720 and KDL60NX720 series. I don't want this become a why one brand is better than another, I am just trying to find out the issues/general performance perception. I am most interested in overall picture quality. Things like 3D, apps, etc. are nice to have but not really of much deciding factor.


Questions:


What are common issues these sets may have that results in warranty service? Are there any known issues the manufacturer has not addressed (for example, the notorious audio drop out issue the xxV5100 Sony tv's had for years)?


What is the performance like for dark scenes on these sets? I understand there is a trade off with edge-lit TV's, I am just trying to grasp if the effect is worse with one set vs another? Any particular strong flashlighting or light bleed issues in a particular model? Is there a particular strength/weakness worth noting?


Do any of these TV's have a BIG problem with ambient light reflecting off the screen? I have some windows about 25ft behind where the TV will be that is only moderately light controlled.


As a general question, would you buy your same set again or not?


How is the general build quality of the TV? Is it flimsy are built like a vault? Any HDMI issues?


And finally, any lag time issue with gaming (PS3) on the TV? There will be a fair amount of first person shooter games on this and really don't want to listen to the kiddos complain about a lag effect.


Like I said, feel free to put in your input on your TV experience. If you have more than one, I would love to hear any first hand differences between the two. If not, let's try to keep it limited to your particular experience with the TV you own.

 

[XLR8TR]

I'll answer your questions by number:


1) No clue

2) LED-LCD's, good ones at least, provide excellent blacks and an overall contrast ratio that goes hand in hand with the best plasma's in my opinion. A friend of mine bought a samsung 64'' plasma and its blacks look no better than that of LED-LCD TV's I've seen in stores. Now there is of course the factor where the TV's must be calibrated and such, but if I were given the choice, I would take the LED-LCD's thinner, lighter, cooler, and more efficient design over a plasma's slightly if not any better quality from personal experience. A lot of the quality depends on brand, source...etc. Also calibration. I recommend comparing the two you like most side-by-side in a store.

3)N/A

4)N/A

5) Are you talking about brand or the type of TV? It depends on a lot.

6) Depends on the response time...LED TV's are LCD's...just a different backlight, so all the specifications are pretty much the same thing. I hear that under 5ms response is the best.


I don't own your specific models, but just trying to answer the questions as best as I can

.

 

[Avgass]

I had two buzzing and peeling PS59D8000s in a row (both sent back) and ended up with a 55NX720 which I am much happier with. Agree with XLR8TR on the plasma vs LCD thing. Have great shadow detail and blacks on the edgelit LED which doesn't seem any worse to me than the PS8000s were. This is important to me cos I like films like Predators and Pandorum.


When replacing the defective Samsung plasmas I avoided the Samsung LEDs cos there seemed to be a lot of users complaining about clouding, flashlighting, banding etc. There are a few complaints about such things with the Sonys but it doesn't seem as common and I've had no issues with mine. All the other boxes were ticked for me too with this model such as good contrast and motion performance (Motionflow), 24p playback, low lag (this is measured in microseconds and is different from pixel lag and seems to be about 30ms [30/1000ths of a second] on most of the Sony models which for most people is not perceptible), full pixel mode, 3D, nice design (wife appreciates this, especially not having the 'CLAW'), thin, energy efficient, built-in wifi.


Both the Sonys and Samsung LEDs are quite glossy. My last TV was a matt finish LCD Samsung from a few years ago and the Sony gorilla glass screen does reflect some but doesn't really distract in my room. The stand is a bit flimsy but that doesn't matter once you are set-up.


Good luck with your purchase.

 

[BoilerJim]

All of the above questions are appropriate to ask, but if you are only considering two brands, Sony & Samsung, and the TV will be used heavily for games, then get the Sony.


I have two great Samsungs, but I'm not a gamer. If I were, then I'd likely get another brand since most people "in the know" say Samsungs are among the worst for gaming lag.

 

[xolan99]

After returning three Samsung LEDs because of really bad flashlighting on the first two, and mild flashlighting but bad clouding (to a point where a third of the TV was almost covered) I went with a Sony HX729. Not perfect but way more acceptable. Never going back to Samsung. Their TVs are sexy on the outside but I prefer the screen on my Sony.

 

[schweich12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xolan99 After returning three Samsung LEDs because of really bad flashlighting on the first two, and mild flashlighting but bad clouding (to a point where a third of the TV was almost covered) I went with a Sony HX729. Not perfect but way more acceptable. Never going back to Samsung. Their TVs are sexy on the outside but I prefer the screen on my Sony.

Can you explain the difference between clouding and flashlighting for me? I thought they were one in the same. What would be the best way to look for/observe this effect in a retail environment? Thanks xolan!

 

[schweich12]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avgass I had two buzzing and peeling PS59D8000s in a row (both sent back) and ended up with a 55NX720 which I am much happier with. Agree with XLR8TR on the plasma vs LCD thing. Have great shadow detail and blacks on the edgelit LED which doesn't seem any worse to me than the PS8000s were. This is important to me cos I like films like Predators and Pandorum. When replacing the defective Samsung plasmas I avoided the Samsung LEDs cos there seemed to be a lot of users complaining about clouding, flashlighting, banding etc. There are a few complaints about such things with the Sonys but it doesn't seem as common and I've had no issues with mine. All the other boxes were ticked for me too with this model such as good contrast and motion performance (Motionflow), 24p playback, low lag (this is measured in microseconds and is different from pixel lag and seems to be about 30ms [30/1000ths of a second] on most of the Sony models which for most people is not perceptible), full pixel mode, 3D, nice design (wife appreciates this, especially not having the 'CLAW'), thin, energy efficient, built-in wifi. Both the Sonys and Samsung LEDs are quite glossy. My last TV was a matt finish LCD Samsung from a few years ago and the Sony gorilla glass screen does reflect some but doesn't really distract in my room. The stand is a bit flimsy but that doesn't matter once you are set-up. Good luck with your purchase.

Avgass:


What was the warranty process like with Samsung? Was it painful dealing with the manufacturer or did you take it to the retailer you purchased from? On the glossy screen, did you find that the reflections in the evening, say between 6 and 10 PM, were acceptable/hardly noticable? Or were the reflections a distraction to the point where you turned off all ambient light? My wife tends to read in the evening while I watch TV and I am curious if the light from lamps, natural light (solar tube in the adjacent kitchen), etc. will be a noticeable issue (I know it is tough to say without first hand knowledge of my viewing environment, so your opinion will work).


Thanks for the feedback so far guys. I made a rush decision on my first HDTV and just want to get as mush info as possible. I appreciate everyone's input and opinions!

 

[xolan99]



Quote:
Originally Posted by schweich12 /forum/post/20857351


Can you explain the difference between clouding and flashlighting for me? I thought they were one in the same. What would be the best way to look for/observe this effect in a retail environment? Thanks xolan!

I'm not an expert on this but I believe if my terminology is correct:


Flashlighting is like edge-bleeding but coming from the corners. Usually they're a bit more pronounced.


Clouding is uneven uniformity (like if you were watching a really dark scene, you'd see splotches of light grey in random places).


In both cases, you usually only see them in certain circumstances in a really dark room. Also you can't really test this in a store because these things change based on tiny variances in the manufacturing process. Just because two TVs are the same model doesn't mean they would exhibit the exact same screen.


hope that helps.

 

[BoilerJim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by xolan99 /forum/post/20857970


I'm not an expert on this but I believe if my terminology is correct:


Flashlighting is like edge-bleeding but coming from the corners. Usually they're a bit more pronounced.


Clouding is uneven uniformity (like if you were watching a really dark scene, you'd see splotches of light grey in random places).


In both cases, you usually only see them in certain circumstances in a really dark room. Also you can't really test this in a store because these things change based on tiny variances in the manufacturing process. Just because two TVs are the same model doesn't mean they would exhibit the exact same screen.


hope that helps.

Good explanation.

 

[Steve S]

1-there is some set-to-set variation in the amount of clouding or flashlighting which makes in-store comparison less than fully valid. In addition the typically very bright ambient light and the fact that the display sets are all in "torch" mode makes it difficult to see these effects in stores. There are tales of woe here about multiple returns of Samsungs in search of an acceptable set, not so many with Sony.


2-These characteristics should become apparent in your home within a few days, are not likely to get any better with time. For this reason it may be advisable, if only for convenience in case of return, to purchase from a local B&M store with a 30 day return policy. Some E-tailers have good return policies but you're still going to have to deal with shipping the bad set back and waiting for the replacement. You also have to consider the possibility of damage during shipment. If you buy online do not sign off on the delivery form until you've at least inspected the set for physical damage.


I own a Sony KDL46EX710, a free replacement for a faulty SXRD set. That particular model is last year's and used a different panel than other sizes and should not be considered representative of current offerings. It has noticeable flashlighting from the right edge of the screen but this is not visible from all viewing angles. Owners of this model in other screen sizes report far fewer flashlighting problems.


When I compare my experience with Sony--free replacement of a nearly 5 year old set--with some of the reports on Samsungs obstinance I tend to fell that Sony has more concern for after-sale service.


I also sell tvs at a large retailer, and see many different models on a daily basis.

 

[westa6969]

Presently based upon the feedback on this forum for months now I would choose a Sony. I own both Sony/Samsung and was tempted to get a D8000 65" but viewing the feedback is one of the worst I've seen in six years here. I have to say that some of the Samsung feedback is downright scarry this year for their flagship model D8000.


I love the thin form factor look of the 60" Samsung but the constant problems with screen uniformity is a no-brainer for me since it screen uniformity is replicated with months of feedback here that's a non-starter to me no matter how thin and cool the bezel may be.


I'm leaning towards the HX929 65" or 70" Elite which both have reported excellent uniformity and blacks/shadow details and were my budget lower I'd probably target the HX729 as an excellent alternative. Also, my 2010 C6400 55" used by my wife gives a great PQ but I must admit when I unboxed that thing it seemed rather cheaply built, more lilke a plastic toy than the quality durable units in my Sony and Sharps and it makes me wonder if it's longevity will ever approach my Sony or Sharp units.

 

[Avgass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by schweich12 Avgass: What was the warranty process like with Samsung? Was it painful dealing with the manufacturer or did you take it to the retailer you purchased from? On the glossy screen, did you find that the reflections in the evening, say between 6 and 10 PM, were acceptable/hardly noticable? Or were the reflections a distraction to the point where you turned off all ambient light? My wife tends to read in the evening while I watch TV and I am curious if the light from lamps, natural light (solar tube in the adjacent kitchen), etc. will be a noticeable issue (I know it is tough to say without first hand knowledge of my viewing environment, so your opinion will work). Thanks for the feedback so far guys. I made a rush decision on my first HDTV and just want to get as mush info as possible. I appreciate everyone's input and opinions!

It's always painful having to send back a TV you just want to work. Having said this I was lucky in that I got the TV through a mate and he sorted the returns. I am in NZ so the brand service will be different to the US.

We just about always have ambient light in the room. Have 4 downlights on dimmers and the room is open plan to the kitchen/dining in which we often leave the lights on. The only time reflection has been a real issue in my room is when my wife was knitting for our newborn and had a reading lamp on the coffee table right in front of the TV. It annoyed me a lot but she was being more productive than me so couldn't complain too loudly. Haha. Of the TVs I've had in my room I would think that the PS8000 plasmas would have been just as bad but my old Samsung LCD would have been better. Normal ceiling mounted lights are not a problem. I can see a reflection of our glazed back door during the day if I'm sitting on the right angle.

 

[digmor crusher]

Samsung probably has a brighter but not necessarily correct image. Seems like Samsung sets this year have mega problems with flashlighting etc.

 

[Fanaticalism]



Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/20858391


Presently based upon the feedback on this forum for months now I would choose a Sony. I own both Sony/Samsung and was tempted to get a D8000 65" but viewing the feedback is one of the worst I've seen in six years here. I have to say that some of the Samsung feedback is downright scarry this year for their flagship model D8000.


I love the thin form factor look of the 60" Samsung but the constant problems with screen uniformity is a no-brainer for me since it screen uniformity is replicated with months of feedback here that's a non-starter to me no matter how thin and cool the bezel may be.


I'm leaning towards the HX929 65" or 70" Elite which both have reported excellent uniformity and blacks/shadow details and were my budget lower I'd probably target the HX729 as an excellent alternative. Also, my 2010 C6400 55" used by my wife gives a great PQ but I must admit when I unboxed that thing it seemed rather cheaply built, more lilke a plastic toy than the quality durable units in my Sony and Sharps and it makes me wonder if it's longevity will ever approach my Sony or Sharp units.

+1.


IMO, Samsung is reverting to their old ways in terms of Quality Control. Also, from a PQ perspective it seems they cannot progress where companies like Sharp, Toshiba and Sony are moving in the right direction. Guess it is harder than it looks to create technology on your own once you know you can't steal others technology anymore.

 

[Do-It-Yourself]

Yes, it seems like Samsung lost its lust. I would also choose Sony due to their quality control.


Used to be a Samsung fanboy, but my experience with their sets have definitely changed my mind.

I will never buy another Samsung television.

 

[r1dude57]

I learned my lesson with Samsung 3 years ago. Never again.

 

[Extreme_Boky]

.... why not Sharp? My intention is not to take the focus / pomp from samsung / sony... it’s just that I'd like to figure out why are people so blindingly following those 2 brands?

Boky

 

[BoilerJim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme_Boky /forum/post/20860763


.... why not Sharp? My intention is not to take the focus / pomp from samsung / sony... it's just that I'd like to figure out why are people so blindingly following those 2 brands?

Boky

Boky, I'm starting to agree with you. I love my two older Samsungs ("A" series and "B" series), but some of the horror stories I've been reading about the new, sexy, edge-lit Samsungs have me more than a little concerned about the direction Samsung is headed. I was one of the more vocal Sharp bashers 3-4 years ago, but I'm intrigued by their new models, especially since they seem to have their former banding problems under control.


Luckily, I'm not in the market for a new TV right now, but if I were, Sony and Sharp would be at the top of my list. If and when Samsung gets its act together and starts making uniformly lit panels again, then they will be right back in the mix. By the way, my Samsung concerns only apply to their LED/LCD models. Unfortunately, those make up the bulk of their line-up these days.


I noticed that Consumer Reports seriously downgraded the new Honda Civic. Maybe they will do the same thing to Samsung. It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

 

[wn2142]

Long time lurker, first time poster... anyway, AFAIK, samsung and sony LCD panels are one and the same... base your decisions on strengths in software and service...


wikipedia.org/wiki/S-LCD

 

[xolan99]

Well maybe karma has its funny way...after posting my disdain for Samsung because of flashlighting problems, my Sony HX729 arrived today and *ta da* it has Flashlighting. It looks like however that I might be able to fix it by reducing brightness in which case it would already be better than my Samsungs.


Maybe I shoulda gone the plasma route...