AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, after much research and discussion on this forum, I've decided to pair up my Denon AVR-5800 (used as preamp only) and Klipsch KSB 3.1 (94 bB efficiency) speakers with a tube amp to make them more musical in a 2 channel system. I know nothing about tube amps, other than what I've read. Budget is ~$1000.


Tangential question - would matching the tube amp to a tube preamp make a huge audible difference over the AVR-5800 as preamp?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
108 Posts
Yes, a pre-amp is the way to go. Most AVRs digitize incoming analogue audio streams and then re-da them. You really do not want to use an AVR to control analogue sources if you can help it.


I dont have any suggestions for you on tube amps around a grand. Take a look over on audiogon for used options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Understand your statement about most AVRs. However, a number of folks have told me the Denon AVR 5800 is a good preamp in the Pure Direct mode. the excerpt from this review below seems to reinforce this. So for now I am wanting to pair the 5800 with a tube or SS/tube hybrid 2 channel amp and see how the sound of my horn based Klipsch speakers change musically.

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...on_avr5800.htm


"The other mode that appealed to me was Pure Direct. In this configuration, the video-display circuitry is disabled and the DACs are used in a dual-differential configuration -- four per channel. This is Denon's attempt at ultimate fidelity with the AVR-5800. The verdict? It is very good indeed. I would say that it is very competitive with entry-level separates featuring a power amplifier and preamp each in the $1000+ price range. It became even more interesting when I used the Pure Direct mode and the pre-out connections to an external power amplifier. The combination of the Denon and the Citation 7.1 was startlingly good considering the price. With the added gusto of an external power amp, the AVR-5800's performance reached a level of transparency I would not have thought possible with a receiver. I would suspect most audiophiles could be quite happy with a dual-purpose setup like this."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] /forum/post/12991290


Understand your statement about most AVRs. However, a number of folks have told me the Denon AVR 5800 is a good preamp in the Pure Direct mode. the excerpt from this review below seems to reinforce this. So for now I am wanting to pair the 5800 with a tube or SS/tube hybrid 2 channel amp and see how the sound of my horn based Klipsch speakers change musically.

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...on_avr5800.htm


"The other mode that appealed to me was Pure Direct. In this configuration, the video-display circuitry is disabled and the DACs are used in a dual-differential configuration -- four per channel. This is Denon's attempt at ultimate fidelity with the AVR-5800. The verdict? It is very good indeed. I would say that it is very competitive with entry-level separates featuring a power amplifier and preamp each in the $1000+ price range. It became even more interesting when I used the Pure Direct mode and the pre-out connections to an external power amplifier. The combination of the Denon and the Citation 7.1 was startlingly good considering the price. With the added gusto of an external power amp, the AVR-5800's performance reached a level of transparency I would not have thought possible with a receiver. I would suspect most audiophiles could be quite happy with a dual-purpose setup like this."

The fact that this reviewer does not question why a "pure direct" mode still involves the DACs should make this review suspect to any hard core audiophiles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] /forum/post/12987231


OK, after much research and discussion on this forum, I've decided to pair up my Denon AVR-5800 (used as preamp only) and Klipsch KSB 3.1 (94 bB efficiency) speakers with a tube amp to make them more musical in a 2 channel system. I know nothing about tube amps, other than what I've read. Budget is ~$1000.


Tangential question - would matching the tube amp to a tube preamp make a huge audible difference over the AVR-5800 as preamp?

Yes! Even your cheaper brands like Antique Sound Labs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
601 Posts
From what I have read around numerous forums tubes go better when used as preamp. So a SS preamp/tube amp combo wouldn't be as great as tube preamp/ss amp. And actually tube preamp/ss amp is a very popular combo these days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
How about matching a tube-pre to a SS amp?

you can use less wattage tube, which should fall under the 1k budget and let powerful SS amp to power the speaker...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,000 Posts
Do tube PREAMP and SS AMP if you really want that SS power. Not the other way around!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,480 Posts
Your price range is going to insure that your tube gear will have audible distortion and probably some anomalies in frequency response. The only tube amps and preamps that I've tested that had the accuracy of solid state gear were several thousand dollars per component. If you want euphonic sound, the easiest way to accomplish it would be to use the equalizer in your receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,886 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc /forum/post/0



Do tube PREAMP and SS AMP if you really want that SS power. Not the other way around!

I second this opinion. If you tend to prefer euphonic, powerful systems, the preferred combo is a tube preamp plus a SS amp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
601 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] /forum/post/13000326


OK, how about if the budget increased to about $3000. Input on the musicality of these components is welcome.


Any thoughts these Rogue Audio tube components?

http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_Titan.htm#Metis


Metis Preamp - $1000


Atlas Power Amp - $1495 versus Vincent SP-331 hybrid amp for $999


OR


This Primaluna Prologue equipment


Prologue 3 Preamp - $1599
http://www.primaluna.nl/products_subpage1a3.htm


Prologue 5 amp - $1599
http://www.primaluna.nl/products_subpage1a5.htm

Prima Luna makes some great tube gear. Depending on the speakers you are trying to drive one of their tube preamps with an SET amp would make a very nice combo. Of course if you have speakers that are harder to drive then go for a beefier class A/AB amp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
All audiophiles I know in Louisville use tube linestages and vary on amps. I'd say it's 50/50 SS to tube. I would never use a AVR pre out to a tube amp. I would never use a SS linestage either allthough I had a Gamut and it was great but the music experience is so much more with the air around everything.


Rogue Perseus Linestage is very good. Tri-con Dave says it's better than his 99 linestage which cost twice as much.


Amp depends on your budget and speakers. Don't under buy! You'll cheat yourself of the experience. Rogue makes many as you see. I have the M-120 and I prefer it over my ARC VT-130 which cost twice as much! Also Rogue is great for tube rolling, a lost art.


Starting out in tubes I'd go with Jadis Orchestra Reference integrated. Jadis is one of the best manufacturer's of tube equipment. Check it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 /forum/post/13001017


Prima Luna makes some great tube gear. Depending on the speakers you are trying to drive one of their tube preamps with an SET amp would make a very nice combo. Of course if you have speakers that are harder to drive then go for a beefier class A/AB amp.

As stated in my original post, I currently own Klipsch speakers, three different sets, that range from 94 - 100 dB efficiency). So, they are easy to drive. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a SET amp. I'm just getting ready to move from HT receivers into the seperate world and am learning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY Colonel /forum/post/13002608


All audiophiles I know in Louisville use tube linestages and vary on amps. I'd say it's 50/50 SS to tube. I would never use a AVR pre out to a tube amp. I would never use a SS linestage either allthough I had a Gamut and it was great but the music experience is so much more with the air around everything.


Rogue Perseus Linestage is very good. Tri-con Dave says it's better than his 99 linestage which cost twice as much.


Amp depends on your budget and speakers. Don't under buy! You'll cheat yourself of the experience. Rogue makes many as you see. I have the M-120 and I prefer it over my ARC VT-130 which cost twice as much! Also Rogue is great for tube rolling, a lost art.


Starting out in tubes I'd go with Jadis Orchestra Reference integrated. Jadis is one of the best manufacturer's of tube equipment. Check it out.

I'd prefer to stay with seperates for now, to allow for more upgrade flexibility in the future. The hybrid amp at the top of my list right now is a Vincent SP-331 hybrid amp (German design, Chinese manufacture). Vincent makes a low cost tube pre-amp called the SA-31 for $500 that they say matches well with the SP-331 amp, but I've not seen any glowing reviews on it. That is why I was looking at the Rogue Audio Metis pre-amp for $1000 or the PrimaLuna ProLogue 3 for $1600.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
667 Posts
I'll throw in my two cents...... first off I have never heard Klipsch speakers that didn't sound better when they were being driven by a tube amplifier.

Horn loaded speakers and tubes are a natural fit.


A 3k budget will allow you plenty of good sounding opportunities, Prima Luna, Rogue, Cayin, Melody even CJ, ARC and Mac if you are willing to buy used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
601 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] /forum/post/13002771


As stated in my original post, I currently own Klipsch speakers, three different sets, that range from 94 - 100 dB efficiency). So, they are easy to drive. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a SET amp. I'm just getting ready to move from HT receivers into the seperate world and am learning.

SET is a type of digital switching amp. Some are known to offer very clean power without the power requirements of class A, AB. One of the most popular is the Trends TA10. 6moons did a very extensive review on it with a lot of speakers including klipsch and they absolutely loved it. They are ~$120 so if anything pick one up to try with your tube preamp.


Reviews
http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10.html
http://www.stereotimes.com/amp031407.shtml
http://www.stereomojo.com/SHOOTOUT2007INTEGRATEDS.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
584 Posts
Hello,


The forum member that was asking abot Rogue. I just sold my Rogue Tempest II integegrated. It is a very bright Integrated tube IMHO. I have 2007 Khorns and 2007 La Scalas. I think I know what everybody is thinking. Khorns LaScalas bright sounding heck yes no way IMHO. I say 2007 models because I have owned 1975 vintage Khorns and the new models have a much more refined sound not bright at all. The Rogue sure made them that way. I have now went to ADA amp and pre pro the most neutral piece of gear I have ever heard. It has a 30 year warranty and it will be in the same room with the Klipsch for many years to come. Just my two cents.


rmlowz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
667 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 /forum/post/13004797


SET is a type of digital switching amp. Some are known to offer very clean power without the power requirements of class A, AB.


Gus, I don't think that is what 'jsmonroe' was refering to, rather SET meaning "Single Ended Triode", a low power tube amplifier operating Class "A" , where the output tube amplifies the entire waveform. The classic 300b tube is popular in this configuration.


This is the popular set-up with the Horn loaded crowd.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
601 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitch54 /forum/post/13005207


Gus, I don't think that is what 'jsmonroe' was refering to, rather SET meaning "Single Ended Triode", a low power tube amplifier operating Class "A" , where the output tube amplifies the entire waveform. The classic 300b tube is popular in this configuration.


This is the popular set-up with the Horn loaded crowd.

Ohh sorry about that got a bit confused between SET and class T. Twitch, isn't that Jolida a hybrid type with tube preamp and class T type amp section? Or is that the 1501RC?
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top