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Discussion Starter #1
I own a 4x3 hdset that does the squeeze with 1080i. I have owned it for 6 months. I use a DTC 100 for watching HD content (most of my viewing) and use the svideo out to run the other channels at full 4x3 aspect ratio.


I am getting tube burn in problems from watching mostly 16x9 content. Does anyone else has this problem? Is there any way to combat this? Any help would be appreciated.
 

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You could get a 16x9 TV.


Then you get burn with 4x3, but sounds like it would be less frequent.


And with 4x3 lots of things look good stretched, so I do that to cut the burn, when possible.


If you can change your vert position easily, you can move it periodically up and down to cover the whole screen.


Other than that, and keeping the contrast to a minimum there is little you can do.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Purchasing an additional TV to replace my 6 month old set is not an option.


I think that I will just have to ahve the service people come out and replace the set every 6 months for the next 5 years. When I got it I knew nothing of these issues. Knowing what I know now I would have gotten a 16x9 set. Maybe after 2 new sets they will just replace this one with one that doesnt degrade so quickly. It is really bad when watching 4x3 content.
 

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Hate to tell you this, but burn-in is NOT covered under any warranty. These companies know it happens and put in very small print that it is not coveed. It is considered "abuse", even though you are doing nothing out of the ordinary and only using the set to do what it is designed for.


Your only option is going through your credit card, claiming fraud. Otherwise, kiss your $ goodbye.


4:3 HDTV's should be banned.


By the way, what is your contrast set at? Did you ever lower it from its factory default? High contrast=guaranteed burnin.
 

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Wasn't trying to imply you had to get 16x9 now.

Since lots of movies will still letterbox, and 4x3 will have black areas on the sides at least for some channels burn in can still be a problem....


As Matt_Stevens says, be sure to turn down your contrast as far as possible. And toward that end be sure to keep your room darkened, so you don't feel the need for high contrast settings.


Everything is a compromise: For your next set you could always choose an LCD or DLP set and instead of burn you will get burnt-out pixels somewhere, also not covered by the warranty till there are X number of them, in just the right or wrong part of the picture!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I might just sell it. I have a LT154 projector for those special moments. I might just put a small direct view hd set back there for tv viewing.
 

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What TV is this btw? I was told by several people on here that provided I have the contrast at a nominal level, and I watch 50/50 4:3/16:9 content on my 4:3 HDTV that I shouldn't see burn-in on the direct-view 4:3 HDTV. This shouldn't be a problem considering I'm probably not getting a HDTV receiver in the near future so the only 16:9 stuff I'll be watching (for a while anyways) will be DVDs. I haven't gotten the TV yet (comes out this month) so I can still change my mind, but I can't find a 16:9 set that has the features of this 4:3 (Princeton Graphics AS series).
 

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Many of us would be interested in more specifics of this burn in situation. Can you respond, was the contrast set to maximum? Did you ever have the set calibrated? How many hours per day was the set used? And, can you notice the burn in ("differential phosphor wear") when the set is off? On with a test pattern? Or watching normal TV shows? Lots of us are curious about this and want to avoid this problem if we can.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Contrast is set about mid way. The front wall of my room is 100 percent windows and the contrast has to be set at this level for pre-sunset viewing.


The set is used about 4 hours a day. It is a Samsung Tantus 53in TV. It was the best I could afford at the time of my purchase.( Just graduated college). Had I known better I would have waited and gotten that Mits I had my eye on.


The lines are noticeable in 4x3 viewing of SD content. I have never had the set calibrated, but pride myself on the job I have done.


On a side note I just got my tenative htpc (previously used only for the projector) to output 720*480 to the set and it is a dramatic improvement over my progressive player. I really need to replace this RCA transcoder so that I can get dvds in 1080i.
 

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Oh! I thought this was a direct-view set, phew (for me anyways).
 

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I have had a Toshiba 65" Widescreen (TW65X81 - 2000 model) for 1 1/2 years and I keep the contrast at 40-50%. I never streach 4x3 and it has had maybe 2-3 hours a day of side black bars. There has been no burn in. It is my belief that with most new TVs a contrast at 50% or less will result in no burn in.


Rick R
 

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Orbillius,


I think that if I were faced with this situation, I would drag out my "old" camcorder. Make a test pattern with white bars at the top and bottom with black in the middle. Feed it to the RPTV every night before bedtime. With the contrast elevated(not so much to cause damage) you may reverse they symptoms in a short time.


Best of Luck, Max
 

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I do not know if you are willing to burn some phosphor?

You could always claim shorten life span of the guns if you

have a 5 year warranty. [don't know if that claim works].

I guess a shorten life is better than bad PQ.


I have heard of some people that had burn-in and able

recover enough to not notice the difference.


They were using a 16x9 RPTV though.

They were able to change the background to white from

the default black [left/right]. Then ran a black image over

the TV. Causing the phosphor to burn quicker on the two

sides. Don't know if Samsung is able to change background

color though.


MITS. They claimed that you should not have a static image

for more than 10 seconds or it will void their warranty if burn-in

problem occurs.... from the product catalog.
 

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I don't recommend you do this, but you could try to "inverse burn" the tubes, by putting white bars on the bottom and top of your image, and black where the 16x9 image would be, and leaving it on for whatever period of time would brun the "unburned" part of your phosphor. Two things, at best you'll still have two horizontal lines at the border of the two burn-ins, and second, you might end up with moire issues if you ever physically move your TV (or if the magnetic fields through your set change, or if for any other reason the scan lines shift very slightly). Unless your TV automatically moves the image up and down every once in a while by an imperceptable amount to keep this from happening.

As for generating the white bars, you could use a laptop that has NTSC output and a paint program.


BTW, i agree with Matt_Stevens, 4:3 HDTVs should be banned.


Oh, one more thing, some people mentioned that 16:9 sets would have the opposite problem, but that's not the case because of two things.


1. Most HD widescreen RPTVs pad the 4:3 image with grey bars to avoid burn in. Some, like my old Pioneer 700HD even modulate the brightness of the grey area to match the average brightness of the screen in realtime, and move the 4:3 window just a tiny bit every once in a while to avoid a burned in border between the grey and the 4:3 image. This can't be done the other way around, i.e. since 4:3 HDTVs use up all of their scan lines on the 16x9 image, there are no scan lines left over to paint a grey bar on the top and bottom of the screen.


2. Most 16:9 HDTVs now have a mode that stretches 4:3 images in a non-linear way as to make it look normal in the center of the image, at the expense of the sides. In other words, the left and right, say, 20% of the image are stretched out horizontally, and the top and bottom 10% are squeezed in. This makes everyhing in the middle of the screen have the correct aspect ratio, so faces and people look right (not fat and short) while there is some distortion on the 4 sides of the image and more distortion in the corners (which your prepheral vision tends to ignore). I've been using this mode on my Panasonic 34" Tau and eventhough it's not perfect, it is quite acceptable to me (may not be to you).


Regards,

Moaz
 

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Quote:
MITS. They claimed that you should not have a static image for more than 10 seconds or it will void their warranty if burn-in problem occurs.... from the product catalog.
And that, of course, is an absolute joke, as every single channel there is, other than HBO or Showtime, has logos 24 hours a day.


I truly wonder why there has been no major class action lawsuit against Mitsubishi, Sony, Toshiba, etc. about this issue. AND against the retail stores who never, ever, EVER mention the problem when you buy a set.
 

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Moaz, most 4:3 TVs do not have the "squeeze" mode which uses all the lines on the 16:9 image. Sony does and perhaps some Toshiba's, but not RCA and not Panasonic, among others.


They have those left ofter scan lines to paint grey bars. They don't do that (unless there is some hidden setting), but they can.


Mark
 

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I bought a 16x9 Toshiba 56" projection TV back in 1997. After 4 years of mostly watching 4x3 content with gray sidebars, I can barely make out the burn in caused by the 4x3 picture. The burn in probably would have happened sooner if the TV didn't have gray sidebars. It seems that the burn in created a slightly different color temperature in the 16x9 picture where the side bars would normally show up in the 4x3 mode.


It's a SDTV. 16x9 mode is used for DVDs. I don't have HDTV yet.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Moaz, most 4:3 TVs do not have the "squeeze" mode which uses all the lines on the 16:9 image. Sony does and perhaps some Toshiba's, but not RCA and not Panasonic, among others.


They have those left ofter scan lines to paint grey bars. They don't do that (unless there is some hidden setting), but they can.


Mark
Yes Mark, but I was talking about 4:3 HDTV sets that can display a 16:9 1080i image. I wasn't talking about SDTVs or NTSC. As far as I know (and I may be wrong) to display a 16:9 1080i image on a 4:3 set you'll have to start painting the picture 12.5% down from the top and stop painting it 12.5% from the bottom egde of the screen. The remaining unpainted 25% stays dark (I'm assuming zero overscan for simplicity). There is no way to make that area grey beacuse the electron gun never aims at that area.


Regards,

Moaz
 

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Moaz, you are wrong. You are right if you mean "best resolution the TV can produce" but wrong if you mean "try to display a 1080i 16:9 image." Most do this by simply using fewer scan lines and painting only the middle of the screen. Only set with the squeeze trick do what you describe, and they are rare.


Mark
 

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I agree with the earlier comments that NTSC should not go above 27". I have the Sony KV27FS16 27" Direct TV. It produces a wonderful image from the cable in my area. I do occasionally have the "looking through small mini blinds feel" as a friend of mine has a Pioneer 16:9 but overall I'm satisfied with the picture for now. It does do the squeeze thing for 16:9 for DVD's and it looks wonderful. I realize that it is only an NTSC TV with component inputs but the Sony DVD player I have matches it well.


I want to keep this set for regular NTSC viewing. I will be purchasing a 16:9 at the first of the year. I'm not sure what to get yet. I looked on the forums for any threads about the Hitachi's but couldn't find any. Two of our local dealers here are real big on the Hitachi's (both carrying several models). I'm very keen on the 43UWX10B 2001 model. Here's the site for it>>
http://www.hitachi.com/products/cons...Z9Q1KOSPC.html


Both of the dealers here have this model for under 2K. What do ya'll (yes, I live in TX) think?
 
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