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I have Klipsch Forte 111. They have a PR. I believe these speakers are more performance than the ones you constantly recommend.
I used to own a set of Forte's, the original version. They had a 12" PR mated with a 12" woofer. They had an F3 of 32 Hz. (More recent iterations of the Forte use a 15" PR with a 12" woofer. )
https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets/forte-brochure.pd

I bought them in 1986 based on the following review by Julian Hirsch, in Stereo Review.





Mr. Hirsch was the last great audio reviewer, IMO. After he passed in 2003, I pretty much quit reading "professional" reviews.

My son still owns my Forte's. We recently re-coned the woofers and changed the crossovers. They still sound AWESOME. He and his family love them. And I get to visit them when I go see my son and grandkids!

I have NO DOUBT your Forte III's are excellent and well worth their asking price. Enjoy! :)

Craig
 

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Even I don’t like DefTech but that doesn’t mean people should just condemn every passive radiator design as non performance.
You're putting words in my mouth; I said nothing so Fox-News melodramatic. :D

Only this:

Just an off hand remark based on my experience of listening to speakers that have them...manufacturers and salespeople like to make a big deal about them, and many newbies easily conflate them with active drivers, but I've not been much impressed with any speakers that have them.
I have never heard the Forte iii that MUDCAT45 mentioned, but based on previous high end Klipsch speakers I've heard, I'd expect them to sound pretty good---far better than the GEs I heard, and certainly better than any Def Tech I've ever heard.
 

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Just an off hand remark based on my experience of listening to speakers that have them...manufacturers and salespeople like to make a big deal about them, and many newbies easily conflate them with active drivers, but I've been much impressed with any speakers that have them.

The only application where passive radiators seem to be genuinely useful to me is cheap and tiny bluetooth speakers (I recently bought a Cambridge Audio Oontz for kitchen countertop use which has them) that try to produce comically lower bass than they should, for the bass-heavy genres so popular these days. In full sized speakers that are already crossed over to subs, they are gimmicky at best.
Seriously? You're going to write off a whole category of speaker designs because some small $25 bluetooth speaker uses them? Maybe if you understood how a PR works, it's advantages and disadvantages, and you used something besides preconceived prejudices to describe what you don't like about them, you *might* have some credibility. As it is you just appear uninformed.

Do you have the same preconceived opinions about ported speakers? You recommend them all the time. Ports use the same acoustic mechanism to produce resonant output. Do you understand how ports work?

Craig
 

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I do have the center channel exactly at ear height.

As Craig knows, I have long been unhappy with my center channel. I have to just buy another Triton 1.

Interestingly, I have tried the Triton 1 as a center channel, and moved the XXL to the Left speaker. I actually liked the voicing that came out of the XXL better than the Triton 1. That's why I haven't made the purchase yet. But the XXL voices sound small to me. Ugh, I guess I'm just chasing perfection, but I don't care, I haven't been happy with the XXL center. I believe it's time to just buy another Triton 1 and use it as a center.

I am hoping that using a Triton 1 as a center will sound bigger than the XXL, and that the soundstage will integrate seamlessly which I think it would considering it's the exact same speaker. I'm also hoping that I can get used to the voicing on the Triton 1, as I said, the actual sound coming out of an XXL is clearer in the voicing range.

Any thoughts?
If you like the sound of the XXL, it might be worthwhile to try it vertically aligned. The voicing shouldn't change but the horizontal dispersion should improve. Before you buy another Triton 1, at least try it. ;)

Turn the tweeter, figure out a way to secure it vertically, and don't even consider that the PR's are only on one side. Let us know what you think. :)

Craig
 

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Seriously? You're going to write off a whole category of speaker designs because some small $25 bluetooth speaker uses them?
You're using the same selective reading as Russdawg, and being equally melodramatic.

Reread the blurb I quoted from my previous post.

There's nothing so absolutist as "write off a whole category" as you imagine.

I was sharing my subjective IMPRESSIONS, not making any dogmatic categorical claims. :rolleyes:

And unlike you, I'm 100% comfortable going by "subjective IMPRESSIONS"---in fact, that's the whole (gasp!) FUN of this hobby.

If I wanted an OCD-fest for a hobby, perhaps I would have taken up collecting stamps, coins, or dead butterflies. :D

So, to reiterate:

  1. YES, I have never heard a speaker with passive radiators that impressed me.
  2. NO, I have not heard the Klipsch Forte iii and am perfectly open to the possibility that would not be as uninspiring as all the others.
Are you still confused??? :)
 

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You're using the same selective reading as Russdawg, and being equally melodramatic.

Reread the blurb I quoted from my previous post.

There's nothing so absolutist as "write off a whole category" as you imagine.

I was sharing my subjective IMPRESSIONS, not making any dogmatic categorical claims. :rolleyes:

And unlike you, I'm 100% comfortable going by "subjective IMPRESSIONS"---in fact, that's the whole (gasp!) FUN of this hobby.

If I wanted an OCD-fest for a hobby, perhaps I would have taken up collecting stamps, coins, or dead butterflies. :D

So, to reiterate:

  1. YES, I have never heard a speaker with passive radiators that impressed me.
  2. NO, I have not heard the Klipsch Forte iii and am perfectly open to the possibility that would not be as uninspiring as all the others.
Are you still confused??? :)
I'm not confused, but you still seem uninformed. :(
 

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Nope, just having fun.

You should try that too, more often. :)
These fora would be a lot more "fun" if you posted from a position of being "informed." You have so many "Zorbites" on the forum and all you offer them is your biased, subjective impressions, often about speakers you've never even heard, simply regurgitating what you've read from the subjective impressions of other forum members. In the recent past, I've offered you a FREE UMIK-1. REW is also FREE, so for not one single dime, you could start to learn some of the technicalities of the science of audio and speakers... you know, the stuff these fora are supposed to be about. Then your advice could come from a position of technical expertise as well as your subjective, biased impressions. At least then you'd have some credibility with those of us who actually do understand some of the technical stuff.

You constant demeaning of the science of audio reminds me of... someone in a position of power who demeans and ignores the science of virus spread. :eek:

Craig
 

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These fora would be a lot more "fun" if you posted from a position of being "informed." You have so many "Zorbites" on the forum and all you offer them is your biased, subjective impressions, often about speakers you've never even heard, simply regurgitating what you've read from the subjective impressions of other forum members. In the recent past, I've offered you a FREE UMIK-1. REW is also FREE, so for not one single dime, you could start to learn some of the technicalities of the science of audio and speakers... you know, the stuff these fora are supposed to be about. Then your advice could come from a position of technical expertise as well as your subjective, biased impressions. At least then you'd have some credibility with those of us who actually do understand some of the technical stuff.

You constant demeaning of the science of audio reminds me of... someone in a position of power who demeans and ignores the science of virus spread. :eek:

Craig
ROTFL, I've never been compared to Trump before. How sweet of you! :D :D :D

Thank you for making my day, Craig. I think I'll be giggling into the wee hours of the morning, at this rate. :kiss:
 

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I do have the center channel exactly at ear height.

As Craig knows, I have long been unhappy with my center channel. I have to just buy another Triton 1.

Interestingly, I have tried the Triton 1 as a center channel, and moved the XXL to the Left speaker. I actually liked the voicing that came out of the XXL better than the Triton 1. That's why I haven't made the purchase yet. But the XXL voices sound small to me. Ugh, I guess I'm just chasing perfection, but I don't care, I haven't been happy with the XXL center. I believe it's time to just buy another Triton 1 and use it as a center.

I am hoping that using a Triton 1 as a center will sound bigger than the XXL, and that the soundstage will integrate seamlessly which I think it would considering it's the exact same speaker. I'm also hoping that I can get used to the voicing on the Triton 1, as I said, the actual sound coming out of an XXL is clearer in the voicing range.

Any thoughts?

Hi JMAX,


Sorry your thread got so off the rails. To get back on topic, let me just make a couple of other points...


There is a school of thought, supported by lots of data, that suggests that the early reflections, which are composed primarily of the off-axis response of the speaker, are very important to the sound you hear, and that if those early reflections are significantly different tonally from the direct sound, they will degrade the overall listening experience. A horizontally aligned MTM CC will, by definition, have lobing issues in the off-axis response. Technically, your XXL CC is not a true MTM, but the two 5.25" drivers on either side of the tweeter will perform exactly like one. Therefore, the off-axis lobing will be the sound that is reflected early from the side walls, and this will be the sound that re-combines with the direct sound to provide the sound you *HEAR*!



While I can't find any dispersion measurements for the XXL CC, it's certainly possible that turning such a speaker 90 degrees will change the sound sent to the side walls., and change the sound you *hear* appreciably. Again, I suggest you try this before you spend any money on another speaker. Figure out a way to temporarily mount it vertically. If that solves the problem, then a more permanent solution can be sought.



Another thing you can try is turn OFF your CC altogether and try "phantom" CC. This will send the CC content equally to the L/R speakers, which will then be perceived by the listener as a true center channel, (but only from the spot directly in front of where the actual CC would have been.) This will be a better indicator of the how well a Triton 1 will perform in the CC position.



Here is a full set of measurements of the Triton 1's on- and off-axis frequency response. https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1357:nrc-measurements-goldenear-technology-triton-one-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
You can see that it is quite flat and smooth, up to about 2 kHz, and out to 30 degrees off-axis, above which the tweeter becomes less smooth, and above 10 kHz, somewhat elevated, especially on -axis. This looks exactly like the measurements I would expect from those speakers after listening to them.






Top curve: on-axis response
Middle curve: 15 degrees off-axis response
Bottom curve: 30 degrees off-axis response


Human speech tapers off significantly above 2 kHz, so the tweeter response should not have a huge impact on voice intelligibility:







With the Triton 1's being flat through the voice range, it seems surprising that speech intelligibility is a problem. Even if the tweeter response is adding some high frequency emphasis, that should only add detail and clarity to voices, not impact intelligibility.


One other thing... IIRC, we found a setting in your Bluray player that had a significant impact on your sound quality. We changed the output from PCM to Bitstream. PCM was only sending 2-channel, which then required the use of an upmixer in your receiver to get multi-channel. Bitstream sent the full, uncompressed multichannel content and allowed proper processing in your receiver without the need for upmixing. That didn't inadvertently get changed back to it's previous setting, did it?


Craig
 

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Take a break guys - I need to go out and buy some more popping corn...
 
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