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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there any benefit to going with one of these ways over the other? I know the 12" will get the lower frequencies, but for HT use will the 2 10" subs pack a bit more punch? Going with the 2 subs is not priced that much more than the single. I am in planning stages for somebody elses HT, so processor/amp have not been decided on. Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

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Two 10" subs (all else being equal) can give you as much extension, because all sealed box subwoofers are EQed, anyway. The cone area of 2-10" subs will be a little greater than a single 12", and you may need less cone excursion for the same output, which may make the bass more articulate. Also, the motor-to-mass ratio will be greater. Two subs allows you to stagger placement to break up standing waves better. There are other considerations, but I am pressed for time... ;)


Notable exception: If the 12" sub is much higher quality than the 2-10" subs, all bets are off.
 

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Paul had a lot of great points, as usual. If you can afford it and have the space, I'd recommend 2 12" subs. I have twin SVS 16-46PC+s placed a few inches apart. Incredible!
 

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It really depends on the subs. There are some 12" subs that will kick the crap out of some double 10" setups. And there are some dual 10" setups that will kick the crap out of some 12" setups. There will also be instances where they will be equal and everywhere inbetween. You'll have to get more specific on what the subs you are considering are before a better guesstimate can be offered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What I was actually looking at are the HSU VTR-2 10" subs and the HSU VTR-3 12". Two VTR-2 subs are just a bit more price-wise than the one VTR-3. As I said before, this is all just planning stages, and I'm putting together options for someone else. This will be a dedicated theater room which even the size has yet to be determined, though it'll probably be in the neighborhood of 18'x24'.

Thanks for the feedback

Len
 

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2 VTR-2's will knock the socks off any single VTR-3, not to mention cleaner bass at any volume (theoretically speaking, never actually tried it).
 

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From Howard Ferstler's testing that isn't true.


HSU VTF-2/$449/issue 89/ 20hz-90dB, 31hz-106dB

HSU VTF-3/$849/issue(HF internet post)/20hz-100dB, 31hz 112dB


So dual VTF2 subs will be the equivalent of a single VTF3 from 31 hz and up and will be 4dB down at 20hz and even further down as you go below 20hz.


The VTF2 is tuned to 32hz while the VTF3 is tuned to 22hz (in max extension mode the VTF2 drops to 25hz and the VTF3 drops to 18hz). A pair of VTF2 subs can get loud but they don't have a hope of keeping up with a VTF3 in extension.
 

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Hi Len,


I was torn between buying one VFT-2 or one VTF-3.


I decided that bigger was better. Also wanted the lower Hertz for LFE.


The room it's in is L shaped a 12'x12' box attached to a 12'x18' box giving a straight run of 24' on one side and the other broken up.


Watched 'das boot' - the surface storm scenes were awesome. You won't feel a need to upgrade. The couch we watch from is located 20' from the subwoofer and it shakes. I have the volume adjustment on the sub at about 1/3.


On someone's suggestion on the forum I went for the B stock and saved a tidy bit of change (thank you whoever you are). Looks and sounds perfect. Heard another fellow who got B stock and he said the only thing he could find wrong was a small white mark appox 1/8 inch.


Now I feel the need to upgrade my satellites although the ones I have now sound fine to me ( Cambridge Sound Works Ensemble with the Center Stage center) - oh well. Yeah, yeah they're too old right? The receiver is a Harman/Kardon AVS 500. Normally I have it at about -22db for DVDs. I balanced the sub and surrounds with a Rat Shack sound meter as suggested - surrounds at 70db sub at 80db. I read the difference was to make up for the fall off of the meter.


In any case if the VTF-3 isn't enough you could always buy another - ya want 'em matched don't ya?


My wife didn't notice the sub except sonically till my daughter made note of it (hid it behind a 125 gallon fish tank) now she doesn't want it in HER living room. Works for me, yesterday I cleaned up the basement and found an empty 40' x 24' space. Today I got estimates on moving a gas pipe and drain pipe - New Project!
 

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blah, blah, blah....


If you are going with two subs, then get two twelves... :D
 

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If one was to put one in low extension mode and one in standard mode while they were placed together........wouldn't this be better than a single 12" that had to be in one or the other modes?



I have no idea, since I haven't had the opportunity to listen to these highly regarded subs in either mode. Although I would guess that this would only work if they were placed together.
 

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The result would be they now couldn't match a VTF3 from 30hz and up (the lower tune will cost a little output in the one VTF2) and they will gain a little ground below 30hz, but still be a fair chunk behind a single VTF3.
 

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What's with the fixation on 12"? In my opinion the best subs out there use 15" and 18" drivers (mind you none of them are traditional commercial offerings either).
 

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Probably the persistant myth that smaller sub drivers are "faster." I've heard that for years, and it's no more true now than it was then.
 

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I was looking for some surrounds to match my VTF3 at the Hsu site and came upon this response about the exact issue from the doctor himself -


'One VTF-3 is better than two VTF-2s. It goes lower and it has a rubber surround that lasts a lot longer.'


Guess that's the answer.
 

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Let's make this easier. Missing in this discussion is the fundamental question "what are you using these with?!? I have a VERY simple rule of thumb that usually works. The subwoofer should be 1.5 times - 2 times the size of the next smallest driver in the system, no bigger, no smaller. This is largely assuming that your speakers are or similar sizes, but, if you're using 5.25" or 6.5" bookshelf speakers, definitely go with dual 10" woofers. If you have larger towers, go with the 12" and run the crossovers lower. System matching is as important in choosing your sub as anything. Although, since the 10" HSU research is obviously tuned for low-end, it may not behave any better than a 12" at upper frequencies. So, like all generalizations, it's subject to exceptions.
 

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While I can't comment on the Hsu subs, I can comment on a similar comparison.


Two Paradigm PW-2200's, are roughly the same cost as one Servo-15. While the dual 2200's can match or exceed the output of the Servo-15 above 30Hz, they certainly didn't sound as good/natural doing so. Once the frequencies dropped, the Servo-15 was the clear winner(and went much lower to boot).


In every case I've ever checked out, I would always choose one great sub over two good subs anyday.
 

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Followup! Of course, if you hear two subs and the bigger one clearly sounds better, that's a different scenario and you should always go for better quality. If the subs are very similar in quality but may just have slightly different ranges, go for the ones that best match the satellite speakers you're using and buy two if you can. All things being equal, two subs are better than one for many reasons. Of course, you can ALWAYS buy the best sub you can afford and then buy a second one later, which is even better!
 
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