Very sorry to hear that. Very worried the same will happen with me on the subs, speakers, amps, even the receivers. This equipment is so heavy that shipping it is almost never cost effective.
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TWO Emotiva XPA Gen 3 Amps Dead
I saw that someone else had posted at the beginning of last year that they had a bad experience with Emotiva product support. Well, while I am certainly sorry about that user's experience, I am a bit glad I am not the only one that had the same experience.
While the company may have been much better in the past, it certainly is far from it now. After only 2 and 1/2 years of owning these two amps, to have them die AT THE SAME TIME is just unbelievable.
But, even more so is the poor excuse for customer support. The toll free support number mentioned in the "welcome" letter is disconnected. The main number in TN never lets me speak with a person in support. The only exchange has been by a support ticket with someone that seems to have started last week.
I am very sorry for putting my faith in this company and spending over $5K in 2018. Now, spent $83 to ship one of the paper weights back to them with hopes they will fix it.
While the company may have been much better in the past, it certainly is far from it now. After only 2 and 1/2 years of owning these two amps, to have them die AT THE SAME TIME is just unbelievable.
But, even more so is the poor excuse for customer support. The toll free support number mentioned in the "welcome" letter is disconnected. The main number in TN never lets me speak with a person in support. The only exchange has been by a support ticket with someone that seems to have started last week.
I am very sorry for putting my faith in this company and spending over $5K in 2018. Now, spent $83 to ship one of the paper weights back to them with hopes they will fix it.
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You might have better luck with your units. Certainly hope you do!Very sorry to hear that. Very worried the same will happen with me on the subs, speakers, amps, even the receivers. This equipment is so heavy that shipping it is almost never cost effective.
The shipping alone almost makes me want to put them out to pasture.
More than likely it is the switch mode power supply. It makes my blood run cold thinking how many people have been taken to the cleaners with these things. With analog (linear) power supplies there are three main parts- a transformer, rectifier and filter caps. With a switching power supply there are dozens of parts and if one not even goes bad but slightly changes value such as capacitors it stops working. Manufactures love them they are light and cheaper. The lifespan on on these units seems to be between 5 and 10 years. Also they are easily damaged by voltage spikes and sags. I have radios that are over 90 years old and the power supplies are still working.
Interesting. I have an XPA-3 Gen3, delivered in February, 2018. Maybe it'll die any day now.
Seems odd that two amps died at the same time. Is that literally the case? (I use "literally" in the, er, literal sense. Some use it as a synonym for "figuratively".)
Seems odd that two amps died at the same time. Is that literally the case? (I use "literally" in the, er, literal sense. Some use it as a synonym for "figuratively".)
Thanks for this explanation. I am confident that is what happened here. I guess they cut corners wherever they can...More than likely it is the switch mode power supply. It makes my blood run cold thinking how many people have been taken to the cleaners with these things. With analog (linear) power supplies there are three main parts- a transformer, rectifier and filter caps. With a switching power supply there are dozens of parts and if one not even goes bad but slightly changes value such as capacitors it stops working. Manufactures love them they are light and cheaper. The lifespan on on these units seems to be between 5 and 10 years. Also they are easily damaged by voltage spikes and sags. I have radios that are over 90 years old and the power supplies are still working.
Hello.Interesting. I have an XPA-3 Gen3, delivered in February, 2018. Maybe it'll die any day now.
Seems odd that two amps died at the same time. Is that literally the case? (I use "literally" in the, er, literal sense. Some use it as a synonym for "figuratively".)
I sure hope you have better luck than me. I remember a hearing a loud thunder close to my house, so I went and turned off both of my Panamax power units (two rooms). Could not say if the amps were OK when I did this, since I did not look at the standby lights.
But, all other equipment in both rooms that was connected to the Panamax power surge units is fine: 2 TVs, 2 amps from Outlaw audio, 2 pre-amps, a sub, 2 blu ray players, etc...all are 100% OK.
So, it may be possible that despite my Georgia Power surge protector at the meter, and the Panamax surge protector, these amps just did not like the power fluctuation. The explanation from psyduck103 makes this all the more likely.
But, yes BOTH units died.
The power supply in the Gen 3 is complex. The amp is supposed to be Class H, which means the PSU voltage is varied continuously to achieve near Class D efficiency with a Class A/B final output. Maybe that's very prone to failure, as you say.More than likely it is the switch mode power supply. It makes my blood run cold thinking how many people have been taken to the cleaners with these things. With analog (linear) power supplies there are three main parts- a transformer, rectifier and filter caps. With a switching power supply there are dozens of parts and if one not even goes bad but slightly changes value such as capacitors it stops working. Manufactures love them they are light and cheaper. The lifespan on on these units seems to be between 5 and 10 years. Also they are easily damaged by voltage spikes and sags. I have radios that are over 90 years old and the power supplies are still working.
Whether Emotiva did this for cost savings, as well as for weight reduction and higher efficiency, I can't say. I'm happy that I didn't have to handle a heavier amp.
You have 90 year old radios with power supplies that still work? With electrolytic capacitors? Impressive.
Thanks for your kind wishes.(snip)
But, yes BOTH units died.
I'd say your amps were killed. But they should have survived, with all that you did to protect them.
I'm using no such high-quality protection scheme. Just a Furman PST-8. Fingers crossed that my XPA-3 survives for a few more years, at least.
Yes. Because the shipping charges to TN are quite high.Thanks for your kind wishes.
I'd say your amps were killed. But they should have survived, with all that you did to protect them.
I'm using no such high-quality protection scheme. Just a Furman PST-8. Fingers crossed that my XPA-3 survives for a few more years, at least.
If they're bad from Georgia, I shudder to think what they'd be from CT, where I live.Yes. Because the shipping charges to TN are quite high.
I believe that commercial shipping rates are much lower than retail ones. I'm disappointed that Emotiva didn't offer that to you.
I admit that my insight into shipping isn't much. A sister of a friend visits once a year from Ireland. She always brings a large piece of luggage, which she loads with 60 lbs of stuff to fly back with her to the Emerald Isle. The airline charges are lower than surface shipping overseas.
Audioholics had a recent You Tube video out about Power Amplifiers. The subject of switch mode and Class D amps came up. They basically said the exact opposite of your opinion. If they are correct looks like your blood is going to run even colder.More than likely it is the switch mode power supply. It makes my blood run cold thinking how many people have been taken to the cleaners with these things. With analog (linear) power supplies there are three main parts- a transformer, rectifier and filter caps. With a switching power supply there are dozens of parts and if one not even goes bad but slightly changes value such as capacitors it stops working. Manufactures love them they are light and cheaper. The lifespan on on these units seems to be between 5 and 10 years. Also they are easily damaged by voltage spikes and sags. I have radios that are over 90 years old and the power supplies are still working.
They did not have electrolytic caps as we know them today, they used filter reactors very heavy and large about 5 pounds for 3mfd, but they last forever. Yes any radio that I have from the 30's and 40's all have restuffed caps. Especially the liquid caps from the 30's. The E.H. Scott all wave Imperial had liquid caps that have been known to explode and share their pcb dielectric with you. The radio that is being referred to is a RCA Radiola 60 RCS's first AC powered table radio, Restoration RCA Radiola 60 | De Poi - Antique RadiosThe power supply in the Gen 3 is complex. The amp is supposed to be Class H, which means the PSU voltage is varied continuously to achieve near Class D efficiency with a Class A/B final output. Maybe that's very prone to failure, as you say.
Whether Emotiva did this for cost savings, as well as for weight reduction and higher efficiency, I can't say. I'm happy that I didn't have to handle a heavier amp.
You have 90 year old radios with power supplies that still work? With electrolytic capacitors? Impressive.
That should be RCA Radiola 60They did not have electrolytic caps as we know them today, they used filter reactors very heavy and large about 5 pounds for 3mfd, but they last forever. Yes any radio that I have from the 30's and 40's all have restuffed caps. Especially the liquid caps from the 30's. The E.H. Scott all wave Imperial had liquid caps that have been known to explode and share their pcb dielectric with you. The radio that is being referred to is a RCA Radiola 60 RCS's first AC powered table radio, Restoration RCA Radiola 60 | De Poi - Antique Radios
I'm not into vintage radio. My father had a small portable vacuum tube radio with a Bakelite case, and a power supply that would probably never blow up. It was a B battery.They did not have electrolytic caps as we know them today, they used filter reactors very heavy and large about 5 pounds for 3mfd, but they last forever. Yes any radio that I have from the 30's and 40's all have restuffed caps. Especially the liquid caps from the 30's. The E.H. Scott all wave Imperial had liquid caps that have been known to explode and share their pcb dielectric with you. The radio that is being referred to is a RCA Radiola 60 RCS's first AC powered table radio, Restoration RCA Radiola 60 | De Poi - Antique Radios
(Don't recall the voltage.) Probably a bit hard to replace in 2021.
***Sorry to hear of your bad experience. Out of curiosity - with such high shipping costs, is there any shop, locally, that can fix your amps? Do you have to pay shipping costs both ways? How about a road trip to Nashville for some great music and take your amps with you?
My XPA-3 was purchased in 2015 and still going strong, knock - knock. I have it connected to an older Furman Elite power conditioner. It handles the L/C/R channels of my home theater with my Denon X6700H AVR. How do you use the amps, if I may ask?
I’m not sure if I’ll take my amp with me when we move. The newer AVR’s have a lot more power. For stereo listening and music - I’ve acquired a tube amplifier that I matched with some older Danish, Dali Evidence 470 speakers. Good luck and I hope you get them fixed to your satisfaction.
My XPA-3 was purchased in 2015 and still going strong, knock - knock. I have it connected to an older Furman Elite power conditioner. It handles the L/C/R channels of my home theater with my Denon X6700H AVR. How do you use the amps, if I may ask?
I’m not sure if I’ll take my amp with me when we move. The newer AVR’s have a lot more power. For stereo listening and music - I’ve acquired a tube amplifier that I matched with some older Danish, Dali Evidence 470 speakers. Good luck and I hope you get them fixed to your satisfaction.
Hello,***Sorry to hear of your bad experience. Out of curiosity - with such high shipping costs, is there any shop, locally, that can fix your amps? Do you have to pay shipping costs both ways? How about a road trip to Nashville for some great music and take your amps with you?
My XPA-3 was purchased in 2015 and still going strong, knock - knock. I have it connected to an older Furman Elite power conditioner. It handles the L/C/R channels of my home theater with my Denon X6700H AVR. How do you use the amps, if I may ask?
I’m not sure if I’ll take my amp with me when we move. The newer AVR’s have a lot more power. For stereo listening and music - I’ve acquired a tube amplifier that I matched with some older Danish, Dali Evidence 470 speakers. Good luck and I hope you get them fixed to your satisfaction.
I did initially want to drive up to Franklin (4 hours), but would need to leave at 4 AM to get there when they open, so I could drive back in time to only take 1/2 day off work. Too much stress!
With Yamaha components, I can take them 15 minutes up the road to an authorized repair shop (Norman's Electronics). Not sure if Emotiva would pay for that type of repair under warranty. They did not offer that to me in the only manner they seem to use for communication---email.
I think they are to pay for the shipping back to me, so it is one-way shipping cost.
Thanks for the wishes, mate!
***Understood. Maybe Emotiva would pay for a Norman's Electronics repair? How about having Norman's Electronics look at the amps? They're heavy paperweights right now, correct? Unusable? Otherwise, a relaxing four hour trip and a day off (I know that might be difficult.)Hello,
I did initially want to drive up to Franklin (4 hours), but would need to leave at 4 AM to get there when they open, so I could drive back in time to only take 1/2 day off work. Too much stress!
With Yamaha components, I can take them 15 minutes up the road to an authorized repair shop (Norman's Electronics). Not sure if Emotiva would pay for that type of repair under warranty. They did not offer that to me in the only manner they seem to use for communication---email.
I think they are to pay for the shipping back to me, so it is one-way shipping cost.
Thanks for the wishes, mate!
Here's the vacation guide to Franklin, Tennessee. Only 21 miles from Nashville! Road trip, road trip. Take Friday off, leave early, drop off the amps and head to Nashville. Two night stay (B&B, Hotel Points?) great music and a mini-vacation.
23 Best Things to Do in Franklin, TN
Franklin is known for its vibrant music scene, lively festivals, and historic main street.
vacationidea.com
The amps they were testing represented what can be done if you don't let the bean counters run the show. I have seen high end and in some cases military SMPS equipment that was absolutely bullet proof. I have seen many analog amps that are absolute pieces of garbage too. I just like to keep it simple so it doesn't strain my little brain trying to fix it.Audioholics had a recent You Tube video out about Power Amplifiers. The subject of switch mode and Class D amps came up. They basically said the exact opposite of your opinion. If they are correct looks like your blood is going to run even colder.
The definitions of Class G and Class H are not standardized.The power supply in the Gen 3 is complex. The amp is supposed to be Class H, which means the PSU voltage is varied continuously to achieve near Class D efficiency with a Class A/B final output. Maybe that's very prone to failure, as you say.
Whether Emotiva did this for cost savings, as well as for weight reduction and higher efficiency, I can't say. I'm happy that I didn't have to handle a heavier amp.
You have 90 year old radios with power supplies that still work? With electrolytic capacitors? Impressive.
In his books on power amplifier design, Douglass Self agrees with your definition of Class H, with Class G having the rail voltage of a power amplifier not varied continuously as in Class H, but between two of three discrete levels. In his books, Bob Cordell switches the two definitions.
The Class H that Emotiva uses does not vary the rail voltage continuously for each amplifier channel as you claim, but instead each channel switches between discrete rail voltage levels in line with Bob Cordell's definition. If you actually consider the design alternatives, providing a separate continuously varying rail voltage for each amplifier channel would be impractical. In Emotiva's case the power supply only needs only to supply what appear to be two fixed voltages. The individual amplifier channels can then do the switching, which is much simpler.
For any amplifier that claims use of Class G or H, a more complete definition of the Class used is unfortunately required since just listing Class G or H is not sufficient.
- From the Stereophile review of the Emotiva XPA Gen3:
Emotiva XPA Gen3 two-channel power amplifier | Stereophile.com
"Emotiva refers to their implementation of class-H architecture, which increases efficiency and minimizes the need for massive heatsinks, as "Soft-Switch" technology.' This implies that switching, not a continuous change in rail voltage is used.
Remember that Emotiva has connected the XLR outputs of the XPA Gen3 out of phase from the worldwide standard, so anything is possible with Emotiva.
The measurements in the Stereophile review confirm the discrete rail voltage switching with output level.
Emotiva XPA Gen3 two-channel power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com
Fig. 4 shows that that the rail voltage switches at a voltage that provides just over 50W into 8 ohm. As expected, Fig. 5 shows the the switching takes place at 100W of output; the same voltage into one-half the impedance. Note that the distortion drops with output at 1k Hz after the rail voltage switch. Within reason, a higher rail voltage often reduces distortion.
It isn't clear if the rail voltage switching and/or other factors are responsible for the high levels of distortion at high frequencies shown in Fig. 6, or the high levels of IM distortion shown in Figs. 9 and 11.
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