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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My intentions for my Two Towers was initially Fi IB3 22's. 96% of the Vd of double the IB3 18's. I wanted the largest displacement driver possible for the projected $450 price tag. I wanted to build the largest enclosures possible per driver for the lowest Q and lowest tune possible with the largest port. The FR plot for the 18's is exactly what I want. Flat to 20Hz then a HUGE spike from 10-20Hz. I have been hoping the 22's would plot similar but louder, more displacement.


Well I need something now. I have been waiting 2 years for the 22's and Ive given up. I don't want to simply add 2 more 18's because that messes up my Q per driver, messes up my FR. I want the same but more.


Going from the 18's to the 22's shouldnt be a huge difference, double the VD but not double the Xmech. I push my IB3s to the full 41mm all the time and I cant hear it when I pass Xmax. So even though the 22's have double the VD cause theyre supposed to have 38mm Xmax vs the 18's 30mm, they have the same Xmech, same profile surround, so I won't have double the useable excursion. So already changes with 22's may only be marginal.


So Nick at Incrimiator is willing to build me custom 21's for $450. PLEASE no one assume they can get them for that, this was a personal talk a long time ago. Do not quote me. He would be using the Death Penalty motor with a softer suspension. I don't think very much Xmax, and I have no idea about parameters. So going from a 22" cone with 30mm Xmax down to 21" cone with less than 30, no good, especially for the same cost.


At one time I was able to get 21" Maelstrom-X's for $450, but it was too late. Again, do NOT quote me on that, that was special circumstances and has now passed. Going from 22" to 21" makes a difference. Period. 1" wide 21 inches around is a good amount of cone area. On top of that, its a flat/wide surround that I HATE rather than the tall 1/2 roll profile of the IB3s. 32mm is OK.



I decided to plot the 21's vs the 18's and I dont like it. Just like all the plotting I did in my van comparing "better" drivers to the IB3s, the larger motored drivers have the same issue in so much airspace: Huge spike at tuning, good, but a huge dip after, then climbs back up.




Overall the 21 is much louder though, as expected, and it would be popular cuz who doesnt love this driver




I been asking about having to bump up to 20" ports for the 22's, well they have more displacement that the 21's and the 21's getting out of hand with *only* 12"



 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
the plot for adding more 18s is nasty, counter productive. same 20Hz on down but sky rockets from 20Hz on up, opposite of what I want.





 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If I get the price I'm hoping for I'll be ordering two 21's tomorrow. But I HATE the flat/wide surround profile and the old scool paper gasket on the front/face.



 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
an 19.5" with a 4" surround

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know what ya mean, the most Sd available, most excursion (less the RE XXX) available. LMS ULTRA and a buncha other TC Sounds, Rockford Fosgate's knock off, MTX...gott love them!


And HATE the MX21!
 

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In most cases, I don't care for the wide surround look either but in the specific case of the Mal-X 21.... it was designed for the 'Sicko' so I am sure it performs. What I love seeing is them 'sub' drivers that have less than 14-15mm of xmax and have a HUGE wide style surround. *laughs* At least on the Mal-X 21 it is there for a purpose and it performs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Correct about the Sicko-X, the entire cone/surround assembly was going to be the same. The surrund is good to over 65mm one way. BUT it still could have had the "normal" profile height with some added width, not reduced height and extreme width. I remember the Power Acoustic MOFO that i got to borrow for a while, the 15" had a 10" cone with a giant surround. I pulled up a pic last night and suddenly the MOFO seems normal!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X

A: Overall Diameter 21.375” inches

B: Cutout Hole 19.625” inches


Isn't the OD usually .5" larger than the driver "size"? ok ok, Im just nit picking till I order them :=D
 

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NO 22's ? have you converted to the dark side or what buddy?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have been put off for 2 years now by Fi. I emailed them before I ordered my recones and said I need to know now, for sure, so I can either order 4 more 18's and 4 recones, or, hold off for the 22's. They said hold off without saying it, stating that an OEM vendor is using the 22's so it will be very soon, just gotta design cones.


Then 2 weeks ago I said I need them now, they said sorry, 2 more months because of new Neo product. That is how it has been for 2 years. "2 more months".


I just emailed Incriminator about some custom 21" HT subs Nick and I discussed a while back and the email came back, IDK whats up but I guess they have moved, so I sent the email to their other addresses.


I still havent heard back from Kevin who is usually rally good about it.


****s up in the air, I got money, I just need availability.
 

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two jackhammers then??



who else makes 22's??



Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Vai_rules /forum/post/19572163


two jackhammers then??



who else makes 22's??



Matt

Hellz to the nah. If I could get jackhammers for $450 a pop, I still couldnt support the weight and Ive never plotted one, but I'm guessin it's not suited for my application lol


Im gonna start a WTB thread for 06' XXXs though (eh hem, Josh?)
 

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at 12 grand a piece, im not buyin it either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ya know, I really do know I am making a bigger deal out of the surround than it really is. if the guy would get back to me this money is burnin a whole in my pocket. holiday time is the worst time, not hearing back from scott at fi or nick at incriminator either
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Im talking to Nick at Incriminator again about custom 21" DPs for the towers


Fs: 23 Hz


Qms: 8.08


Qts: 0.67


Qes: 0.73


Mms: 419 g


BL: 15.35


Vas: 372.7 L


SPL: 90.5 1w/1m
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sounds like I'm getting Incriminator Audio 21's, my 18's already give me a lotta turbulence and some noise from my 12" port, and I am finding I get a lot more output below 10Hz already so I might bring down tuning a touch...


How do I make bells like these? I have a router, I can't remember the bit that I have though... like a 1/2" round over?



 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That model was 2.8 ohms in series.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite /forum/post/19577157


How do I make bells like these?

A wood lathe.... and I wouldn't bother dropping tuning but that's your choice I guess...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I dont have one of those but I could cheat with a jig saw and sand paper. It shouldnt drop tuning much at all, I think adding 2" only drops it 1Hz, so really it wouldnt drop at all...just increase output and reduce noise. I could do several layers and router each layer, glue together, then sand and get pretty close.
 
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