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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is probably insignificant.


Using the AVIA color decoder chart, my blue looks fine at 0% and my red and green look maybe -5%.


I'm not concerned, but if I were to try to adjust these, what do I adjust:


2170P-1

RDRV and GDRV or RCUT and GCUT?


2170P-4

RYR and RYB

GYR and GYB?


What do these stand for? I figured GYR meant Green-Red and GYB meant Green-Blue -- i.e., to adjust the Cyan and Yellow panels in the Green Color Fields screen. But I'm confused and don't know what these acronyms mean or what to do to use the Service Menu and AVIA to adjust my color decoder to get close to 0% on Green and Red (as I said, at -5% it's pretty close for me, I think -- assuming I'm looking at the right thing. I use the AVIA pattern with the squares of Red, Green and Blue going from -25% to +25% (I think) against a grayish-white background, I use 2170P-2 - RGBS to turn off all panels but Blue, then Red, then Green, and see how the pure color matches the background at what percent).
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by eweiss
This is probably insignificant.


Using the AVIA color decoder chart, my blue looks fine at 0% and my red and green look maybe -5%.


I'm not concerned, but if I were to try to adjust these, what do I adjust:


2170P-1

RDRV and GDRV or RCUT and GCUT?


2170P-4

RYR and RYB

GYR and GYB?


What do these stand for?...
The color decoder is RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB. I am not sure what the abbreviations stand for. RYR is the level of red. RYB is the equivalent of red hue. GYR is the level of green. GYB is the equivalent of green hue.


You are using the wrong test image for adjusting the decoder. I also do not really like that test screen because it only shows the levels of the primaries with respect to white. I prefer the standard SMPTE color bars or the ones with the flashing boxes or the one with the gray bar below all of the color bars.


The latest version of the tweaks covers two methods I have used to set these, but I have pasted them below. I prefer the results from the light meter method because it avoids the problem with panels picture settings shifting up when some are turned off.


Visual Procedure For Color Decoder:


You need color test patterns like those found on AVIA to set the color decoder properly. Use only the blue LCD panel and the blue pattern to set color and hue, the green pattern and LCD panel is used to set GYR & GYB, the red pattern and LCD panel is used to set RYR & RYB. To switch the panels on and off use RGBS in category 2170P-2.


The colored filters can also be used, but the green with Avia is much less accurate than switching the panels. You need to view a display like THX Optimizer for setting picture level and increase **** only to the point where the light grays do not shift in color.


Light Meter Procedure For Color Decoder:


Use the special Avia color bar pattern with the 77 IRE white bar below each color bar and the blue and red filters included with Avia. This minimizes the shift in brightness caused by a change in horizontal position.


Use the blue filter to set the adjustments for blue. The filter should be between the light meter and the screen with the sensor pressed up to the screen. Set the level of blue to match the level of blue in white with the COLOR adjustment. Then adjust HUE by measuring the level of blue in cyan and magenta and match them to the level of blue in white.


Next, use the red filter to set the color decoder for red. Adjust RYR (red level) by setting the red bar intensity to match the white bar with the red filter. Adjust RYB by setting the red level in yellow and magenta to match that in white.


Green requires a different method because the color filters are inadequate for that primary. The color bars should follow the following intensity pattern for NTSC relative to white:


· White 1.0

· Yellow 0.866

· Cyan 0.701

· Green 0.587

· Magenta 0.413

· Red 0.299

· Blue 0.114




HD should follow the following pattern if you had a test pattern:


· White 1.0

· Yellow 0.9279

· Cyan 0.7875

· Green 0.7154

· Magenta 0.2846

· Red 0.2125

· Blue 0.0721



Set the level of green to match its ratio to white (0.587) without any filter using GYR. Set the level of yellow and cyan to match their ratios to white (0.866 & 0.701) using GYB. It may not be possible to exactly match both cyan and yellow. Distribute the error such that yellow looks like a bright lemon.


An AEMC CA813 light meter is recommended for this purpose. This meter has an error rating of +-3% of the reading and follows the CIE photoptic response.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by umr
The color decoder is RYR, RYB, GYR and GYB. I am not sure what the abbreviations stand for. RYR is the level of red. RYB is the equivalent of red hue. GYR is the level of green. GYB is the equivalent of green hue.


You are using the wrong test image for adjusting the decoder. I also do not really like that test screen because it only shows the levels of the primaries with respect to white. I prefer the standard SMPTE color bars or the ones with the flashing boxes or the one with the gray bar below all of the color bars.


The latest version of the tweaks covers two methods I have used to set these, but I have pasted them below. I prefer the results from the light meter method because it avoids the problem with panels picture settings shifting up when some are turned off.


Visual Procedure For Color Decoder:


You need color test patterns like those found on AVIA to set the color decoder properly. Use only the blue LCD panel and the blue pattern to set color and hue, the green pattern and LCD panel is used to set GYR & GYB, the red pattern and LCD panel is used to set RYR & RYB. To switch the panels on and off use RGBS in category 2170P-2.


The colored filters can also be used, but the green with Avia is much less accurate than switching the panels. You need to view a display like THX Optimizer for setting picture level and increase **** only to the point where the light grays do not shift in color.
So if I use the standard Blue, Red and Green color bars (I don't have a light meter), do I:


1. Turn on the Blue panel only and adjust COLOR and HUE with that with the blue standard color bar. I.e., I only adjust color and hue, I do NOT make any settings changes that require MUTE+ENTER (write). Then, keeping those COLOR and HUE SETTINGS, I next:


2. Turn on the Red panel only and adjust RYR with COLOR to get all the boxes below the midline (red, yellow, magenta) to look the same shade and RYB with HUE to do the same.


3. Turn on the Green panel only and adjust GYR with COLOR to get all the boxes below the midline (green, yellow, and cyan) to look the same shade and GYB with HUE to do the same.


And will THAT thus make my color decoder pretty accurate? I think that's what you're telling me to do. Sorry for my denseness.


OR, I guess instead of making the boxes below the middle match, just use RYR and RYB, and GYR and GYB, with the flashing boxes to match them for color and hue, correct????
 

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I don't follow your use of COLOR with RYR and GYR, or HUE with RYB and GYB.


COLOR will adjust the intensity of blue. You match this to its level in white.


HUE will adjust the intensity of blue in cyan versus magenta. You match the level of blue in cyan and magenta to each other. They should also match the level of blue in white.


RYR will adjust the intensity of red. You match this to its level in white.


RYB will adjust the intensity of red in yellow versus magenta. You match the level of red in yellow and magenta to each other. They should also match the level of red in white.


GYR will adjust the intensity of green. You match this to its level in white.


GYB will adjust the intensity of green in yellow versus cyan. You match the level of green in yellow and cyan to each other. They should also match the level of green in white.


The other thing to be careful about with this procedure is you need to turn down the picture level to prevent panel saturation and false results. I believe this problem exists when you turn off the blue and green panels. You could avoid this by just using the blue filter on the blue test since it is adequate for the adjustment. This is what I am referring to about using THX Optimizer to temporarily lower the picture setting.


I don't know how else to state this. You might want to try the help "?" information on the Avia disk. It can help quite a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by umr
I don't follow your use of COLOR with RYR and GYR, or HUE with RYB and GYB.


COLOR will adjust the intensity of blue. You match this to its level in white.


HUE will adjust the intensity of blue in cyan versus magenta. You match the level of blue in cyan and magenta to each other. They should also match the level of blue in white.


RYR will adjust the intensity of red. You match this to its level in white.


RYB will adjust the intensity of red in yellow versus magenta. You match the level of red in yellow and magenta to each other. They should also match the level of red in white.


GYR will adjust the intensity of green. You match this to its level in white.


GYB will adjust the intensity of green in yellow versus cyan. You match the level of green in yellow and cyan to each other. They should also match the level of green in white.


The other thing to be careful about with this procedure is you need to turn down the picture level to prevent panel saturation and false results. I believe this problem exists when you turn off the blue and green panels. You could avoid this by just using the blue filter on the blue test since it is adequate for the adjustment. This is what I am referring to about using THX Optimizer to temporarily lower the picture setting.


I don't know how else to state this. You might want to try the help "?" information on the Avia disk. It can help quite a bit.
MY MISTAKE. Now that I tried it based on what I thought, what I meant to write was:


1. Turn on the Blue panel only and adjust COLOR and HUE with blue standard color bar to get the flashing SAT and HUE patches to match each other. I do this with the COLOR and HUE buttons and do NOT make any settings changes that require MUTE+ENTER (write). Then, keeping those COLOR and HUE SETTINGS, I next:


2. Turn on the Red panel only and adjust RYR so the flashing SAT patches match their backgrounds and each other, and RYB so the flashing HUE squares match their backgrounds and each other. Use MUTE+ENTER.


3. Turn on the Green panel only and adjust GYR so the flashing SAT patches match their backgrounds and each other, and GYB so the flashing HUE squares match their backgrounds and each other. Use MUTE+ENTER.


I think I understand this to be what you're saying -- correct this time?


I reduced the PICTURE setting and found the settings I had made were still good. Then I reset the PICTURE setting to 64 ticks.


(I had used THX to set my PICTURE. I was able to set it to 64 ticks (highest) and still distinguish all 8 white boxes, but I had to reduce **** to 8 (from 12) to get the yellow change to stop, but left it at 9 to get a bit more contrast (for Video 5&6). I was able to leave it at 10 on Video 1-4. Is this better than a lower PICTURE setting with a higher ****? This seemed to reduce that problem on Video 1-4 I noted with B&W movies having a warmer tinge on the left side of the picture than on the right.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by eweiss
MY MISTAKE. Now that I tried it based on what I thought, what I meant to write was:


1. Turn on the Blue panel only and adjust COLOR and HUE with blue standard color bar to get the flashing SAT and HUE patches to match each other. I do this with the COLOR and HUE buttons and do NOT make any settings changes that require MUTE+ENTER (write). Then, keeping those COLOR and HUE SETTINGS, I next:


2. Turn on the Red panel only and adjust RYR so the flashing SAT patches match their backgrounds and each other, and RYB so the flashing HUE squares match their backgrounds and each other. Use MUTE+ENTER.


3. Turn on the Green panel only and adjust GYR so the flashing SAT patches match their backgrounds and each other, and GYB so the flashing HUE squares match their backgrounds and each other. Use MUTE+ENTER.


I think I understand this to be what you're saying -- correct this time?


I reduced the PICTURE setting and found the settings I had made were still good. Then I reset the PICTURE setting to 64 ticks.


(I had used THX to set my PICTURE. I was able to set it to 64 ticks (highest) and still distinguish all 8 white boxes, but I had to reduce **** to 8 (from 12) to get the yellow change to stop, but left it at 9 to get a bit more contrast (for Video 5&6). I was able to leave it at 10 on Video 1-4. Is this better than a lower PICTURE setting with a higher ****? This seemed to reduce that problem on Video 1-4 I noted with B&W movies having a warmer tinge on the left side of the picture than on the right.)
My concern: My Green GYR or GYB (I can't remember which) I had to reduce first to 0, but finally just to 1, to get the decoder right. This is right at the edge of any further adjustments. Had I been unable to go low enough, is there another adjustment that moves the setting up a few to say 6 or 7 so one has more leeway when adjusting GYR and GYB?


Also: Why does PRO mode just not have the "punch" that STANDARD and VIVID have? For some movies, I think I prefer STANDARD, so I will also do my settings for that, too. When using THX Optimode, it's obvious that there is more contrast in STANDARD than in PRO mode (when adjusting for BRIGHTNESS -- the THX Shadowbox lettering), as well as in VIVID mode. What parameters can we adjust in the SERVICE MENU to give PRO the dynamic range of STANDARD, or at least the apparent extra contrast? I can't boost **** anymore.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by eweiss
...I think I understand this to be what you're saying -- correct this time?

... Is this better than a lower PICTURE setting with a higher ****? ...
Your description of setting the color decoder should work.


I don't believe it matters whether you adjust **** or PICTURE to get the high level signals correct.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by eweiss
... is there another adjustment that moves the setting up a few to say 6 or 7 so one has more leeway when adjusting GYR and GYB?


...What parameters can we adjust in the SERVICE MENU to give PRO the dynamic range of STANDARD, or at least the apparent extra contrast? I can't boost **** anymore.
I do not know of another adjustment that will effect the green color decoder values.


I would adjust VGAM or GAMM to change the gamma (apparent contrast) of your set. Increasing VGAM will definitely increase gamma. GAMM is a table selection and I have not measured other settings since 0 got me very close to where I wanted it. Increasing the gamma response will tend to make it more difficult to pick out low level black details on this set.
 
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