AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I would like to know the SIMPLEST (No HTPC) way to connect the video to the NEC LT150 using the following:


1- DTC-100 HDTV Satelitte Receiver (VGA Output)

2- Denon Non-Progressive DVD Player (Pr Pb Y - RCA Outputs)

3- S-VHS (S-Video Output)


I have an excellent picture using VGA direct from DTC-100 to LT150. It compares to a calibrated JVC G11 to my uncalibrated lens corrected eyes.


S-Video cable from the DVD Player, S-VHS and Regular Satellite are no where near as good as it was to a 4 year old Vidikron D-300 300 lumen projector. The contrast and colors are great but the FOCUS is close but not close enough.


From what I have researched on this forum that I need a Breakout Cable (maybe 2), some sort of BLACK BOX with INPUTS for VGA from the DTC-100 and RCA cables from the Pr Pb Y from the DVD Player.


To further complicate this am using a S-VHS Player and another Satellite Receiver with S-Video outputs.


Is there a way to do what I want without having to manually switch an A-B switch on the Black Box?


Is there a Scaler, Doubler or combo (for under $1200) that will do all the above(without the Black Box)and display a picture as good as my old LCD Projector with no doubler or scaler for DVD, S-VHS and non HDTV Satellite.


Would appreciate any precise comments and answers with model numbers and sources.


Understand, I would like to make this as close to "Plug and Play" as possible.


I realize this might have been placed in the Video Processor section but think my questions are too broad.


[This message has been edited by Jim OD (edited 08-07-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Jim OD (edited 08-07-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,099 Posts
Probably the most plug and play way to do it is get a AV reciever that does the switching for you. My Denon 3300 has two component video input, and numerous S-video inputs. Most recievers that do component video switching have plenty of bandwidth for 480p and I believe switch 1080i OK. A few higher end recievers can handle upto 1080p. The receivers won't convert S-video to component video though.


There are several companies that make breakout cables. Most break out the VGA into 5 BNC cables. Radioshack sells BNC/RCA jacks. Bettercables for instance lets you specify the length and either BNC or RCA connectors. I was able to find breakout cables locally that had either 4-BNC r 3-BNC. Since you don't need the 2 extra connections (horizontal and verticle sync), I bought the 3-BNC breakout cable and 3 Radioshack BNC-RCA connectors. Works fine with my progressive scan DVD player to the LT150, eventhough one specifies Y-Cr-Cb and the other Y-Pr-Pb.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
You might also try picking up a used Crystal Image or Quadscan for under $1000, and this will greatly improve your scaling and deinterlacing with your non-progressive DVD plus all your other sources. It has a VGA pass through for your DTC-100. This is precisely the setup I'm looking to put together; I've got the CI coming within the week, and I'll let you know what it looks like. The only thing I don't have is the DTC-100.


The CI (not sure about the Quadscan) has 5 BNC connectors. Use a 5 BNC connector to VGA, and all of your video will go into the one input of the LT-150 and it should be greatly enhanced (almost, but not quite, to the level of an HTPC).


The AVR switcher is a good idea, too, but you'll spend a fair amount on it, and you probably already have audio equipment. The biggest problem is that you'd have to spend some dough to convert your VGA hidef signal from the RTC-100 to component (and lose a bit of quality in the process). OTOH, a Crystal Image or Quadscan will greatly improve the quality of ALL your different sources, and can be had used for $800-$1000. It's the route I went for...


Edit: Oh, and as an aside, call before going to Radio Shack for any cables. I was in there yesterday and asked for a VGA < 5 BNC breakout cable, and the guy thought I was from Mars. No dice at Best Buy, either.


[This message has been edited by lmo (edited 08-07-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Jon.


I have a Onkyo TX-DS777 that does have many S-Video Inputs and Outputs and has done a wonderful job with the Vidikron D-300 however it has NO VGA(RGB) In or Out. In addition to that the S-Video on the NEC LT150 is not as good as the Vidikron. The only way I can describe it is the colors are great, the contrast is fantastic but it will not perfectly focus.


The downfall of the LT150 in LACK OF INPUTS!(And no Zoom) It only has one RGB (VGA) Input, One S-Video (No problem because of Receiver Switching and one RCA Video Input. It has a Audio and USB but that is not important here.


I don't think the cables you describe are what I want. I see no need for BNC unless I have a Scaler/Doubler. Here in lies the question. Will I be able to focus what I am now feeding with S-Video Cables and how can I put that all together.


And back to the question. Is their a Scaler/Doubler - Black Box of any kind that will do all the above and get me a in focus picture what is now on S-Video?


I know I am a little thick, but seems everyone want to go the HCPC route. I DO NOT. Thanks again Jon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
304 Posts
since you want plug & play, you can't get it any easier than getting an a/v receiver with component video switching.


i'm running my DTC100 (with audio authority) AND my component DVD player through my Denon 5700. all you would need at the projector end is a breakout/converter cable to take the 3 wires back to a D-15 connector for the LT150.


couldn't be simpler / easier. HD looks great too!


PS: i have no idea what you mean by "not being able to focus s-video sources". can you focus so the LT150 screendoor / pixels are sharply visible when you are close to the screen?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,276 Posts
The problem is that the VGA input on the LT150 acts as both a RGB and a component input, changed by menu switch. There isn't going to be an easy way to use both the VGA output of your satellite and the component outputs of the DVD player. A switch might help but you would still have to change the internal settings on the pj everytime you switched the source.


Thanks!


------------------

Jason Turk

AV Science, Inc.
http://www.avscience.com

716-454-1460 ext.204

[email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Quote:
Originally posted by bossmonkey:
since you want plug & play, you can't get it any easier than getting an a/v receiver with component video switching.


i'm running my DTC100 (with audio authority) AND my component DVD player through my Denon 5700. all you would need at the projector end is a breakout/converter cable to take the 3 wires back to a D-15 connector for the LT150.


couldn't be simpler / easier. HD looks great too!


PS: i have no idea what you mean by "not being able to focus s-video sources". can you focus so the LT150 screendoor / pixels are sharply visible when you are close to the screen?
No, not sharp pixels like my LCD or the LT150 in HDTV. I can get the menu sharp and clear but the pixels are a litte fuzzy. Not in HDTV though.




[This message has been edited by Jim OD (edited 08-07-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Jason,


I don't have an LT150, but I thought I remembered someone posting that it has an "Auto" setting that detects whether the input is RGBHV or YPbPr.


It's probably worth mentioning here that there is a good low-tech way to do this kind of switching, which is to use shielded cat 5 cable, with a shielded RJ45 coupler as described in this thread. Sure, you have to physically unplug one and plug the other in when you want to switch, but the signal quality is great, and you can't beat the price.


- Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Using a Quadscan or CI would be no problem - all you need is a 5 BNC to VGA Breakout cable. The CI and Quadscan have all kinds of inputs - S-video, Component, and a VGA pass through (for your RCA-DTC-100). So you can connect your components TO the CI with whatever you like - component/svideo/etc The CI only has one output (in most configurations) a 5 BNC output. So what you do is take a breakout cable with 5 BNC connections on one end and a VGA connection on the other, which you plug into the projector. All of the switching is done at the scaler, and the scaler will also do the aspect ratio control. Every source (except for the RCA HDTV sent through the passthrough) will be upconverted to 1024x768 and sent to the projector in the proper format, whatever the component.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Quote:
Originally posted by lmo:
Using a Quadscan or CI would be no problem - all you need is a 5 BNC to VGA Breakout cable. The CI and Quadscan have all kinds of inputs - S-video, Component, and a VGA pass through (for your RCA-DTC-100). So you can connect your components TO the CI with whatever you like - component/svideo/etc The CI only has one output (in most configurations) a 5 BNC output. So what you do is take a breakout cable with 5 BNC connections on one end and a VGA connection on the other, which you plug into the projector. All of the switching is done at the scaler, and the scaler will also do the aspect ratio control. Every source (except for the RCA HDTV sent through the passthrough) will be upconverted to 1024x768 and sent to the projector in the proper format, whatever the component.
Great! Now can I use my current 35 foot VGA(RGB) and not have to buy a 35 foot Breakout cable or would it be better to bite the bullet and get the cable and either a CI or Quadscan Elite. Think the Quadscan would be several hundred dollars cheaper. Does anyone know if my focus would be sharp pixels like my DTC-100 is now feed with VGA. Understand the

S-Video is a little out of focus. Someone has to have this arrangement somewhere. Will the Quadscan Elite do the switching also?


Thank you for your comments and looks like I'm getting there.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Satterlee:
Jason,


I don't have an LT150, but I thought I remembered someone posting that it has an "Auto" setting that detects whether the input is RGBHV or YPbPr.


It's probably worth mentioning here that there is a good low-tech way to do this kind of switching, which is to use shielded cat 5 cable, with a shielded RJ45 coupler as described in this thread. Sure, you have to physically unplug one and plug the other in when you want to switch, but the signal quality is great, and you can't beat the price.


- Chris
Thanks Chris - tried that too. Same thing.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Just to clarify - you'll have one cable to run from the projector to the scaler (I'll assume the CI, since I know more, but I think the Quadscan's the same). This will be your "long run" cable, but it must be the breakout cable, because the scaler only outputs are the 5 BNC. The scaler will output the 5 BNC and you'll run that into the projector (the breakout cable will have a VGA connector on the other end). So you will need to get a different cable than a standard VGA to VGA cable, unfortunately.


All of your other connectors can remain the same, though. Run your S-VHS into the scaler's s-video (this will definitely improve the picture) input; run your DVD through component into the scaler; run your DTC-100 to the scaler both with S-video (for standard def) and the VGA pass through on the scaler (for high def). You'll get improved quality on everything except for the Hi-def that you run through the "passthrough" on the scaler. The nice thing is that the scaler will not only act as a video processor, it will also act as your video switcher giving you many more inputs. Hope this clarifies things a bit...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Quote:
Originally posted by lmo:
Just to clarify - you'll have one cable to run from the projector to the scaler (I'll assume the CI, since I know more, but I think the Quadscan's the same). This will be your "long run" cable, but it must be the breakout cable, because the scaler only outputs are the 5 BNC. The scaler will output the 5 BNC and you'll run that into the projector (the breakout cable will have a VGA connector on the other end). So you will need to get a different cable than a standard VGA to VGA cable, unfortunately.


All of your other connectors can remain the same, though. Run your S-VHS into the scaler's s-video (this will definitely improve the picture) input; run your DVD through component into the scaler; run your DTC-100 to the scaler both with S-video (for standard def) and the VGA pass through on the scaler (for high def). You'll get improved quality on everything except for the Hi-def that you run through the "passthrough" on the scaler. The nice thing is that the scaler will not only act as a video processor, it will also act as your video switcher giving you many more inputs. Hope this clarifies things a bit...
Thank you for your patience and being so clear and understanding. I got it! Now to start putting this together!

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
The Quadscan connectors are not the same as the CI. The CI has RCA connectors for its YPbPr inputs and 5BNC for its RGBHV outputs. The QS has BNC for its YPbPr inputs and HD-15 for its RGBHV output. There's a picture of the CI backpanel on this page . And a picture of the QS backpanel on page 2 of this PDF.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Thanks Jason,


You are also mentioning those BNC connectors. There are NO inputs for BNC connectors on the LT150. Do you feed the LT150 Projector with VGA(RGB) from the CI? Do you input the

CI with 3 BNC connectors from the DVD?


My son-in-law has a Quadscan Feeding a JVC11. It's simple, 5 BNC's from the Quadscan to the JVC11. This is not the case with the LT150 and again the PROBLEM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Thanks for clarifying. In that case, Jim, if you get the QuadScan, you should be okay with the VGA cable you already have, since you'll be going VGA to VGA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
You guys have done a great job in talking about the CI and QS in relation to component and S-Video inputs. What about progressive component inputs? Can the CI and QS scalers pass the progressive signal on to the LT150 from a progressive DVD player like the RP91? Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
No, unfortunately neither of these scalers will accept a progressive signal. I suppose one option would be to use a component to VGA breakout cable and run this through the VGA pass through on the CI, but it would really defeat the purpose of having the scaler. My guess is that you'd get a better picture running 480 interlaced through the scaler to the projector than passing through a 480p to the projector directly, anyhow. I don't know first hand how the deinterlacer on the RP-91 compares to that of the CI, but I'm very confident that the scaler on the CI is significantly better than that on the LT-150. If you feed a progressive signal to the LT-150, you're still stuck with the LT-150's on-board scaler to scale the 480p image to the LT-150's native 1024x768 native resolution. I think you'll get a better picture from the CI. That doesn't mean you wasted you money on your Panasonic, though, because it is supposed to have GREAT audio, too (I assume the rumors are true?)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
LMO:


Unfortunately, the general consensus on the forum has been that feeding a progressive player directly to the LT150 is better than feeding a component player through a scaler to the LT150. I haven't bought an RP91 yet since I'm trying to determine the best course of action.


Two questions please:


1) How does the LT150 know to bypass its internal scaler and use the external one instead?


2) How much, on average, does a QuadScan or Crystal Image cost? Are there different versions (like CI Pro/Plus/etc.)?


Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
I haven't heard of anyone report the results of using a scaler with the LT-150 as of yet. Now, there have been some discussions saying that an image with a good progressive DVD player is better than from the DVDO Line Doubler. This is possible, but although the DVDO is often referred to as a scaler, it isn't. All a DVDO does is turn an interlaced signal into a progressive signal, just like your Panasonic progressive player. Bear in mind that an outboard line doubler (or deinterlacer) is doing the same thing as your Panasonic is doing internally - taking a 480i source and making it 480p. So you really shouldn't get a better image from a progressive DVD player than from a scaler, UNLESS the progressive DVD player has a better deinterlacer than the scaler and this is enough to offset the scaler's advantage over the projector in scaling the progressive signal to native resolution. In many respects, a scaler is more comparable to results from an HTPC in most cases, rather than to a progressive DVD player.


As far as cost/models, the CI has various software updates, and they are free to owners. The Quadscan has two models - the Pro and the Elite (its successor). The Elite can be found online for around $1200 new (check with AVS) and perhaps a little more for a CI. I just purchased a used CI with the latest software updates for $750, and deals like this can be found in the classifieds for those interested. Again, I haven't tried the CI with the LT150 yet, but will within the week. I'm just passing along the info I've learned from the experts while lurking in the video processor forum. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top