[Officer Steve]

Greetings,

I've been reading and trying to learn about receivers here in this particular part of the AVS Forum. I haven't owned a receiver since 1988, had a pioneer "stereo" receiver, plugged in the dvd player and two speakers....easy.


Now I've purchased a Denon 788, spent over a day reading the manual and "piecing" it together. After I think i've set it up correctly, it seems....alright at best, not what I thought it would be. Maybe I should list my components, that will be important.


Toshiba dlp 1080p, bought last year.

PS3---40gb

Denon 788

Dish Network HD receiver

Wii

and SIX pioneer bookshelf speakers that came w/ one of the walmart package purchases.


I have the ps3 and dish net running into the denon via hdmi. One hdmi running from the denon to the DLP. Can't get the Wii to display video, but can hear it (component rca's).


I have a large living room with three speakers on each side, the front face the couch, the middle two are pointed out to the middle and the back two are pointed towards the dlp.


I've got the ps3 set to bitstream, i believe this is correct...not sure. So I get it all turned on and powered up and put in transformers (sd version). I was expecting the "transforming" sound to really punch me. It didn't. I don't remember what I had the receiver set to, but after some time, i "switched" it to "5 channel", sounds much better, but still not enough. It sounds...like 5 channel stereo, not surround. Cars blu-ray sounds better though. Black Hawk Down blu-ray sounds alright, i was hoping the "whomp, whomp" of the copters coming in to Mogadishu would thump at me, still not what I would call surround, maybe I'm wrong, don't know.


PS3 game, MGS4 looks kinda dark, darker than it was (i think). Dish Network HD channels definitely don't look HD anymore.


I don't have a sub (future purchase). I already had the speakers, will be buying better ones in the future, just not now.


So, what will make it sound "better"? Speakers? Set up wrong? What gives?

Am I asking too much for the $$$ I spent? Am I wanting something that the Denon/speakers can't deliver?


The speakers are on small shelves, not those metal type arms you can buy and mount, so the way they face, the sound is traveling over my head i guess you could say.


One last thing, hdmi switching. So if i understand this correctly, i pick the hdmi port on the dlp, plug the receiver into that port and when i want to switch between dishnetwork and the ps3, i just switch via the receiver, no changing inputs on the dlp remote. But would have to change dlp input selection via tv remote if i want to play the wii? I'm not sure, right now, I'm switching the denon to "dvd" and the tv remote input also, this doesn't seem correct.


thanks for your all time,

 

[eitakura]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Steve /forum/post/14223930


Greetings,

I've been reading and trying to learn about receivers here in this particular part of the AVS Forum. I haven't owned a receiver since 1988, had a pioneer "stereo" receiver, plugged in the dvd player and two speakers....easy.


Now I've purchased a Denon 788, spent over a day reading the manual and "piecing" it together. After I think i've set it up correctly, it seems....alright at best, not what I thought it would be. Maybe I should list my components, that will be important.


Toshiba dlp 1080p, bought last year.

PS3---40gb

Denon 788

Dish Network HD receiver

Wii

and SIX pioneer bookshelf speakers that came w/ one of the walmart package purchases.


I have the ps3 and dish net running into the denon via hdmi. One hdmi running from the denon to the DLP. Can't get the Wii to display video, but can hear it (component rca's).


I have a large living room with three speakers on each side, the front face the couch, the middle two are pointed out to the middle and the back two are pointed towards the dlp.


I've got the ps3 set to bitstream, i believe this is correct...not sure. So I get it all turned on and powered up and put in transformers (sd version). I was expecting the "transforming" sound to really punch me. It didn't. I don't remember what I had the receiver set to, but after some time, i "switched" it to "5 channel", sounds much better, but still not enough. It sounds...like 5 channel stereo, not surround. Cars blu-ray sounds better though. Black Hawk Down blu-ray sounds alright, i was hoping the "whomp, whomp" of the copters coming in to Mogadishu would thump at me, still not what I would call surround, maybe I'm wrong, don't know.


PS3 game, MGS4 looks kinda dark, darker than it was (i think). Dish Network HD channels definitely don't look HD anymore.


I don't have a sub (future purchase). I already had the speakers, will be buying better ones in the future, just not now.


So, what will make it sound "better"? Speakers? Set up wrong? What gives?

Am I asking too much for the $$$ I spent? Am I wanting something that the Denon/speakers can't deliver?


The speakers are on small shelves, not those metal type arms you can buy and mount, so the way they face, the sound is traveling over my head i guess you could say.


One last thing, hdmi switching. So if i understand this correctly, i pick the hdmi port on the dlp, plug the receiver into that port and when i want to switch between dishnetwork and the ps3, i just switch via the receiver, no changing inputs on the dlp remote. But would have to change dlp input selection via tv remote if i want to play the wii? I'm not sure, right now, I'm switching the denon to "dvd" and the tv remote input also, this doesn't seem correct.


thanks for your all time,

To get the best sound quality out of the PS3, set it to LPCM (not bitstream). Your lossless CODECs can't be bitstreamed, so go with LPCM.


What kind of video connection are you using for your Wii?


Sounds like you don't have a center channel - is that right? If that's the case, did you configure your receiver so it knows you don't have a center? otherwise, it may be trying to output your center channel (which carries most of the dialogue and much of the front sound) and you may be losing all of this. You can temporarily leave out one of the rear surrounds and try to use your system as a 5.0 system (3 in front, two on sides or side/rear) and see if that helps.


5-channel may be outputting the non-surround stereo over the speakers. I have a 7-channel stereo mode on my Yahama that downmixes surround to 2-ch stereo and outputs it over all connected speakers.


For PS3 being dark, you hopefully can adjust this on your set without affecting the other sources.


If your Dish Network HD has degraded in quality, something must be wrong. Make sure you're not processing this input unnecessarily and potentially downconverting it inadvertently. Were you using HDMI on Dish Network source previously?


If you're just using bookshelf speakers, these may not be able to provide the low frequencies you're expecting for the bass-heavy scenes. Also, make sure that your speakers are not set as "small" since you don't have a sub and check your crossover. Otherwise, the receiver may be diverting low freq to the subwoofer channel and making your speakers sound bass-weak versus what they might ordinarily otherwise sound like if you sent them full frequencies.


Sounds like you're using component video for your Wii. Does your receiver convert component video in to HDMI out? If it does, then you may be able to get by with a single HDMI to your TV. When you say you don't get video out of your Wii, did you try to keep the TV input to HDMI (even if you're using component video from Wii to receiver) and see if you get your video signal that way?


Sounds like there's quite a few more things you can do to optimize your system. Adjusting the speakers to point more toward the listening area will help some too (at least for highs), but even after all the optimization you can do, you may still be limited by your bookshelf speakers.


Hope this helps some.

 

[Officer Steve]



Quote:
What kind of video connection are you using for your Wii?

Figured the Wii out today, daughters been playing guitar hero.

Quote:
Sounds like you don't have a center channel - is that right?

right...

Quote:
If that's the case, did you configure your receiver so it knows you don't have a center? otherwise, it may be trying to output your center channel (which carries most of the dialogue and much of the front sound) and you may be losing all of this. You can temporarily leave out one of the rear surrounds and try to use your system as a 5.0 system (3 in front, two on sides or side/rear) and see if that helps.

Will try this...

Quote:
5-channel may be outputting the non-surround stereo over the speakers. I have a 7-channel stereo mode on my Yahama that downmixes surround to 2-ch stereo and outputs it over all connected speakers.

So, that is not what I want, right? I want it to output in "surround", "true surround", you understand? When it's set to 5 channel, the receiver is forcing the audio into 5 channels, instead of "true surround"? Guessing here...

Quote:
If your Dish Network HD has degraded in quality, something must be wrong. Make sure you're not processing this input unnecessarily and potentially downconverting it inadvertently. Were you using HDMI on Dish Network source previously?

Yes, the dish network has been on hdmi for over a year. Could be some setting in the dish receiver, I clueless on this one. Can't figure it out.

Quote:
If you're just using bookshelf speakers, these may not be able to provide the low frequencies you're expecting for the bass-heavy scenes. Also, make sure that your speakers are not set as "small" since you don't have a sub and check your crossover. Otherwise, the receiver may be diverting low freq to the subwoofer channel and making your speakers sound bass-weak versus what they might ordinarily otherwise sound like if you sent them full frequencies.

So set the bookshelf speakers to large/big until a sub is purchased? Then change them back to small?

Quote:
Sounds like there's quite a few more things you can do to optimize your system. Adjusting the speakers to point more toward the listening area will help some too (at least for highs), but even after all the optimization you can do, you may still be limited by your bookshelf speakers.

I think it can be tweaked to sound better as I learn how to use my receiver, but the speakers are definitely part of the problem.

Quote:
Hope this helps some

Yes, thank you. I appreciate it.

 

[eitakura]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Steve /forum/post/14227503


So, that is not what I want, right? I want it to output in "surround", "true surround", you understand? When it's set to 5 channel, the receiver is forcing the audio into 5 channels, instead of "true surround"? Guessing here...

Well, I don't have your receiver, so I was guessing on the 5-channel. But that may be the case. After you fix the center channel issue, try to put it into a surround mode - there should be multiple to choose from. Even one that's a DSP mode should be a surround mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Steve /forum/post/14227503


So set the bookshelf speakers to large/big until a sub is purchased? Then change them back to small?

Yes, that's what I would do. It'll be interesting to see how much this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Steve /forum/post/14227503


I think it can be tweaked to sound better as I learn how to use my receiver, but the speakers are definitely part of the problem.

How good did the speakers sound previously? They should sound at least as good (after proper adjustment) now that you've added a quality receiver, but perhaps not a whole lot better if they're really the weak link in your system.

 

[Tamas]

Have you tried "auto setup"?


For the whop, whop, I am afraid you may need better speakers, a center channel and a sub.


Now you need a budget to work within.


Regards,


Tom