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HDR TV shall support all HDR formats.

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Look "existing operational" up in a dictionary!

Again, using the VP9 Profile 2 compliant Chromecast Ultra, the Vizio P TV does support all existing operational HDR formats, therefore it's a universal HDR TV for the time being.
Operational: in or ready for use

HDR10+ is ready for use.

There are exactly 0 universal HDR displays currently on the market.
 

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Discussion Starter #242

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For the time being, HDR10+ and Technicolor HDR are not functioning and ready for use.

For example, the support of Dolby Vision by Sony is still tbc (i.e. to be confirmed / announced / to be checked with operational source content) in my book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vCYV6RWMOU#t=0m
https://www.sony.fr/electronics/televiseurs/a1-series
If there are demos of the format, then the formats are functioning and ready for use. But the huge difference between HDR10+ and Technicolor HDR is that HDR10+ content is currently being developed by an actual streaming service, and it's supported by one of the biggest studios, while there is no talk of Technicolor HDR being implemented in any actual movies or TV shows.

Also, I used to have a Chromecast Ultra, and I can tell you that the picture quality is not anywhere near what the internal apps on my TV (my TV supports VP9 Profile 2, and therefore VP9-HDR10 and VP9-HLG, natively) can produce. It's a nice solution if you want support for VP9-HDR10 and VP9-HLG, but the picture quality on the CCU leaves a lot to be desired. I ended up selling my Chromecast Ultra for this very reason.
 

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Technicolor HDR is not a usual HDR format.
"Advanced HDR [i.e. + Technicolor HDR + SDR-to-HDR up-conversion] is a universal distribution system supporting all formats of HDR." [Technicolor]
https://twitter.com/Technicolor/status/817535919490146304

Technicolor HDR is "standardized in ETSI" by TS 103 433 – SL-HDR1.
http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/103400_103499/103433/01.01.01_60/ts_103433v010101p.pdf

Technicolor HDR is using the SMPTE ST 2094 Dynamic Metadata for Color Volume Transform: ST 2094-20 (Philips) and ST 2094-30 (Technicolor).
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-3.html#post49682777





July 2015 - Technicolor enters race to put HDR in your TV:
https://www.cnet.com/news/technicolor-enters-race-for-high-dynamic-range/



January 2016 - Technicolor HDR delivery solution receives support from leading SoC manufacturers:
"Technicolor (Euronext Paris: TCH, OTCQX: TCLRY) today announced that a growing number of leading TV and Set Top Box (STB) System-on-Chip (SoC) manufacturers are integrating Technicolor’s High Dynamic Range (HDR) Delivery Solution into their offerings, including: Marvell, MSTAR, Sigma and STMicroelectronics."
http://www.technicolor.com/en/who-w...ves-support-leading-system-chip-manufacturers

January 2017 - Presentation and demo of Technicolor HDR at the SVG Summit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt_ZEIgQC-0#t=32m18s

January 2017 - Announcement of the support of Technicolor HDR on 2017 LG TV at the CES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TLAJfKDJ2s#t=6m47s

March 2017: Spectrum SportsNet HDR broadcast of NBA game between LA Lakers and Denver Nuggets:
http://thefuturetrust.technicolor.c...ba-game-between-la-lakers-and-denver-nuggets/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sIXKr_DCaY#t=0m

August 2017 - HDR and Technicolor go to bat for major league broadcasting:
"Technicolor partnered with Spectrum Networks and Charter to deliver the first back-to-back HDR and SDR single production broadcast for MLB fans across the US and UK."
http://www.technicolor.com/en/who-w...-technicolor-go-bat-major-league-broadcasting

Also, Technicolor HDR (aka SL-HDR1) as well as SMPTE ST 2094-10 Dolby Vision are ATSC 3.0 candidate standards.
https://www.atsc.org/standards/candidate-standards/

Is this Technicolor HDR delivery system operational for the time being?
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-7.html#post54611106
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=13953041#post13953041

I remember it….to clarify the nomenclature, that’s a slide outlining the combination of Technicolor’s upconversion technology (which b.t.w. for those who didn’t know was used for some HDR VOD selected sports during the 2016 Olympics) and Technicolor’s distribution technology bundled under the moniker Advanced HDR by Technicolor.

As to your question, “operational” in terms of commercial deployment to customers in the field rather than successful proof of concept tests?, .....nope, not that I’m aware of, at least not in the U.S.

P.S.
As to the ETSI document which you linked in that post, to give full credit where credit is due, SL-HDR was jointly developed by Technicolor, Philips, STMicro and CableLabs. Not getting much traction at all.
For the time being, the Technicolor HDR is still not operational as far as I know.
 

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Technicolor HDR is not a usual HDR format.
"Advanced HDR [i.e. + Technicolor HDR + SDR-to-HDR up-conversion] is a universal distribution system supporting all formats of HDR." [Technicolor]
https://twitter.com/Technicolor/status/817535919490146304

Technicolor HDR is "standardized in ETSI" by TS 103 433 – SL-HDR1.
http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/103400_103499/103433/01.01.01_60/ts_103433v010101p.pdf

Technicolor HDR is using the SMPTE ST 2094 Dynamic Metadata for Color Volume Transform: ST 2094-20 (Philips) and ST 2094-30 (Technicolor).
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-3.html#post49682777





July 2015 - Technicolor enters race to put HDR in your TV:
https://www.cnet.com/news/technicolor-enters-race-for-high-dynamic-range/



January 2016 - Technicolor HDR delivery solution receives support from leading SoC manufacturers:
"Technicolor (Euronext Paris: TCH, OTCQX: TCLRY) today announced that a growing number of leading TV and Set Top Box (STB) System-on-Chip (SoC) manufacturers are integrating Technicolor’s High Dynamic Range (HDR) Delivery Solution into their offerings, including: Marvell, MSTAR, Sigma and STMicroelectronics."
http://www.technicolor.com/en/who-w...ves-support-leading-system-chip-manufacturers

January 2017 - Presentation and demo of Technicolor HDR at the SVG Summit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt_ZEIgQC-0#t=32m18s

January 2017 - Announcement of the support of Technicolor HDR on 2017 LG TV at the CES:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TLAJfKDJ2s#t=6m47s

March 2017: Spectrum SportsNet HDR broadcast of NBA game between LA Lakers and Denver Nuggets:
http://thefuturetrust.technicolor.c...ba-game-between-la-lakers-and-denver-nuggets/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sIXKr_DCaY#t=0m

August 2017 - HDR and Technicolor go to bat for major league broadcasting:
"Technicolor partnered with Spectrum Networks and Charter to deliver the first back-to-back HDR and SDR single production broadcast for MLB fans across the US and UK."
http://www.technicolor.com/en/who-w...-technicolor-go-bat-major-league-broadcasting

Also, Technicolor HDR (aka SL-HDR1) as well as SMPTE ST 2094-10 Dolby Vision are ATSC 3.0 candidate standards.
https://www.atsc.org/standards/candidate-standards/


http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=13953041#post13953041



For the time being, the Technicolor HDR is still not operational as far as I know.
Fair enough, Technicolor HDR is not operational.

According to Penton-Man's definition, though, HDR10+ is definitely operational, as there is now deployment of the format from content providers to Amazon, as he previously stated in that thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #248
Fair enough, Technicolor HDR is not operational.

According to Penton-Man's definition, though, HDR10+ is definitely operational, as there is now deployment of the format from content providers to Amazon, as he previously stated in that thread.
No!

Multiple demos shown off at various public events and an SES test channel.
... “operational” in terms of commercial deployment to customers in the field rather than successful proof of concept tests? ...
For the time being, a consumer can't stream HDR10+ content from Amazon or from any other streaming service.
 

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No!





For the time being, a consumer can't stream HDR10+ content from Amazon or from any other streaming service.
That's not what he meant. He was referring to commercial deployment to customers in the field. In this case, it's Transkoder techs delivering HDR10+ content to Amazon, as he mentions here: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=14181929&postcount=2999

If you ask him, I'm 100% convinced he'd consider the format to be "operational."
 

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Good point, Why not ask him yourself

If you ask him, I'm 100% convinced he'd consider the format to be "operational."


It is easy enough for you to register on Blu-ray.com. It's your discussion point. Penton-Man has shown he will answer any question you ask him.;)
 

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Discussion Starter #252
Thanks.
It is not Technicolor HDR that was added, but it is Technicolor Expert mode, TV settings optimized by Technicolor’s color scientists.
http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1508155180



"New Technicolor mode should provide a very precise setting without any need to switch Picture settings in the menu. For many users, this result could be very faithful and accurate images even without calibration with the appropriate tools. The Technicolor video mode can be used with sources in the Standard Dynamic Range and High Dynamic Range."
http://www.techtoyreviews.com/lg-upgrades-oled-tv-2017-technicolor-mode/
 

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No!

For the time being, a consumer can't stream HDR10+ content from Amazon or from any other streaming service.
Indeed. We had the announcement waaaaaay back in April - thread - and an estimated date of September content which came and went. Latest estimate I read was "before the end of the year". It's a little reminiscent of Netflix's end of 2016 deadline, that people kept mentioning last year!

It is to my constant annoyance that the "HDR10+ on Amazon" thread title used the present tense, instead of the future tense. That wrongly implies that something is here which is not here - yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #254
HDR format war or marketing war?

There seems to be quite a few young people here who were not around for previous wars.
Don't know how long a shake out period will be required for this to settle.
Sony Beta and VHS took a couple of years with product in both formats. Finally Ma and Pa picked the decidedly poorer technology VHS because more stuff was on VHS because more people bought VHS players because it was a less expensive player and more stuff was on VHS and the vicious circle finally swamped Sony.
Then Sony was so mad about BETA's demise when HD rolled around they went nuts with the propaganda, never mind HDDVD could be pressed on current DVD machinery with minimal additional cost and would not require completely new and different machinery. I don't remember there being any substantially better picture quality in HDDVD vs BR, but I do remember the expensive and hard to produce multilayer disks.
So today is more of the same without of course a product for the masses. Who in their right mind, other than AVSers would layout that kind of money for disks in either format and buy a new player on top of that.

Wouldn't surprise me to see them both go the way of 3D or curved screens.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...r-dolby-vision-versus-hdr10.html#post55038126

What you described above in both instances were 'Physical Media' format wars. Early adopters had to choose a 'Physical Media' player and you were at the mercy of the market and what eventually wins out as the more available and prevalent physical media format. (VHS v Betamax; Blu-Ray v HD-DVD)

NOTE: I am a 100% Streaming viewer with a TCL 55P605 Roku TV that supports HDR10 and DV. No physical media player connected.

Perhaps I don't understand the issues that having a UHD Player presents, but is this really a 'Format War'? Wouldn't the same content (HDR10, HDR10+, DV) come on the same physical media that will run on your UHD player and based on the supported HDR capability of the Player and your TV Display present the best possible HDR content? In any of these cases it will be a HDR quality picture. My limited reading seems to indicate that HDR10 is a base layer that HDR10+ and DV utilize. Based on your UHD Player and TV display you would at the very least get a default HDR10 quality picture, which is pretty nice quality. Same for streaming. Support for all three (3) would be nice, but if you have a HDR capable display, at the very least you will get a HDR10 quality stream. I guess my thought is that if these three (3) formats are going to battle it out, but I still get at the very least a HDR10 quality stream to my display, I don't feel like I have lost out.

Like a lot of things in electronics, this seems like more of a 'Marketing War' than a 'Format War'.

My $.02
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...dolby-vision-versus-hdr10-2.html#post55063478

 

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Of course the BDA doesn't think it's a format war. They're going to be making HDR10+ the mandatory base layer. That right there is a war-preventing move.
 

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Discussion Starter #259
Request to the BDA to impose the support of all is specified HDR formats

The BDA could stop the HDR confusion in consumers' minds.

Dolby Digital vs. DTS or Dolby Atmos vs. DTS:X could be audio format wars.
But consumers don’t have to endure hardship of audio format war thanks to the consumer-driven audio/video receivers (AVR) makers. They support all audio formats. It is not their logic business to interfere in consumer choice: a playback device should be able to play any existing content the consumers want.


Different audio or video formats are just different software running on playback devices (AVR, media player, TV).
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-4.html#post50302361
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-4.html#post50480993

Furthermore, software development is much easier and faster on modern operating systems of HDR TV than on rigid and complex DSP platforms of audio/video receiver.


We, consumers, can’t let "what happens in the industry happens".
After all, we, consumers, pay!

Consumers can just require Dolby Vision TV makers or HDR10+ TV makers to just add a piece of HDR software in order to be compatible with the other HDR format. This upgraded TV will remain the same: same panel, same electronic parts, same mechanical parts!

For example, the Sony Z9D doesn’t support Dolby Vision at launch.
Sony already made the announcement - no Dolby Vision support.
Someone mentioned that Samsung's dynamic metadata HDR10 proposal passed with the competent authorities and perhaps we will see something like a dynamic HDR update on the Z in the future, but this is pure speculation.
Nobody should buy this set expecting a DV upgrade in the future - it simply ain't happening.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...ead-no-price-talk-please-60.html#post46372345

Later, the Sony Z9D will get Dolby Vision with a free software upgrade.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...c-july-12-july-13-2017-a-14.html#post54095697
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...ad-no-price-talk-please-180.html#post49661985


Dolby Vision is currently the most complex HDR format due to its dynamic metadata color volume mapping and its 12-bit dual layer architecture. Therefore, if a TV’s SoC like the Sony Z9D TV's SoC is powerful enough to support Dolby Vision, this SoC is able to support any other HEVC HDR format like HDR10+.

In the same way, if a UHD Blu-ray player’s SoC is powerful enough to support Dolby Vision, this SoC is able to support HDR10+.


The BDA wants to avoid a HDR format war, because a format war is detrimental to consumers, and therefore to its members (manufacturers, movie studios …).
In exchange for the addition of HDR10+, the BDA should require the TV makers to support both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision.

 

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