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HDR TV shall support all HDR formats.


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Discussion Starter #401 (Edited)
All displays must support 4, 5, and 7 through HDMI. 4 and 5 are 0TT. While 7 is reserved for UHD BluRay.
...
To top that, as far as I understand, 7 is also OTT:
"The dual-stream solution includes two video streams, known as the Base Layer and the Enhancement Layer.
The Base Layer shall conform to the requirements of one of the following Interoperability Points: the DASH-IF IOP Main Interoperability Point, the DASH-IF IOP UHD 4k Interoperability point [i.e. Dolby Vision Profile 4 base layer] or the DASH-IF IOP UHD HDR10 Interoperability point [i.e. Dolby Vision Profile 7 base layer]."
https://dashif.org/docs/DASH-IF-IOP-v4.2-clean.htm


Standards ecosystem of Dolby Vision:

 

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To top that, as far as I understand, 7 is also OTT:
"The dual-stream solution includes two video streams, known as the Base Layer and the Enhancement Layer.
The Base Layer shall conform to the requirements of one of the following Interoperability Points: the DASH-IF IOP Main Interoperability Point, the DASH-IF IOP UHD 4k Interoperability point [i.e. Dolby Vision Profile 4 base layer] or the DASH-IF IOP UHD HDR10 Interoperability point [i.e. Dolby Vision Profile 7 base layer]."
https://dashif.org/docs/DASH-IF-IOP-v4.2-clean.htm


Standards ecosystem of Dolby Vision:

They're similar in that, the both of them carry a HDR10 base layer, the difference is the IPT/ICtCp color model support available to Profile 4 by way of string changes.

The DV CMU does add some IPT/ICtCp color model benefits to UHD disc content even though all disc content is YCbCr.

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So, can Sony sets decode 12 bit DV or not? That's the question. Only 10-bit HEVC is listed in that chart.
10-bit HEVC has always been the main codec used.

Sony sets can, the processing is handled by a external device. When we say 12 bit, there's FEL, and then there's the 12 bit range that allows more color, no banding and 10,000 nits of brightness.

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All displays must support 4, 5, and 7 through HDMI
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OTT must support dvhe.04/05.
You really need to stop making unsupported claims. Dolby is quite clear that profile support is up to the manufacturer hence interoperability is strictly a side-effect of good will. Viz. Sony.

Beyond the fact that you believe "older" Sony displays require dvhe.04 what evidence to you have that Apple is sending it? You're wrong in your assertion that OTT requires 4 & 5. There's one industry requirement. from BDA, that UHD discs with DV have to use dvhe.07 (and that HDR10 has to have luminance metadata). They don't require BD players to actually process DV.
 

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You really need to stop making unsupported claims. Dolby is quite clear that profile support is up to the manufacturer hence interoperability is strictly a side-effect of good will. Viz. Sony.

Beyond the fact that you believe "older" Sony displays require dvhe.04 what evidence to you have that Apple is sending it? You're wrong in your assertion that OTT requires 4 & 5. There's one industry requirement. from BDA, that UHD discs with DV have to use dvhe.07 (and that HDR10 has to have luminance metadata). They don't require BD players to actually process DV.
My apologies, for my lack of clarity. My post wasn't meant to imply that there is a support guideline for OTT and display manufacturers. Especially, not one being enforced by Dolby.

The point was, compatibility and support. You are right that, Sony, older models that do not have DV hardware or software, do not need any DV Profile support. HDR10 encodes can be streamed independently.

ATV supports Profile 5 only and HDR10(Main 10).

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Discussion Starter #406
...
Profile 4 carries a HDR10 base layer, and a DV enhancement layer.
...
They're similar in that, the both of them carry a HDR10 base layer, the difference is the IPT/ICtCp color model support available to Profile 4 by way of string changes.

The DV CMU does add some IPT/ICtCp color model benefits to UHD disc content even though all disc content is YCbCr.

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The base layer of Profile 4 is BT.709 SDR: VUI = 1,1,1,0,0.
The base layer of Profile 7 is BT.2100 ST.2084 HDR10: VUI = 16,9,9,0,2.

"VUI: For both base layer and enhancement layer, the comma-separated five-part VUI value represents electro-optical transfer function (EOTF), color primaries, matrix, range, and chroma sample location type, respectively. For VUI value definition, see ITU-T H.265."
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-vision/dolby-vision-profiles-levels.pdf

EOTF / Transfer characteristic of Profile 4 = 1




EOTF / Transfer characteristic of Profile 7 = 16

 

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Discussion Starter #407

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Discussion Starter #408 (Edited)
HDMI & Dolby Vision / HDR10+

HDMI carriage of Dolby Vision / HDR10+ dynamic metadata

As HDMI 2.1 Dynamic HDR is not quite available for the time being, the HDMI carriage of Dolby Vision and HDR10+ dynamic metadata have been implemented in proprietary ways in some HDMI 2.0 products.
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/hdmi-21-features-start-trickling-av-gear#q7aCAXxdHlHkewzO.99

HDR10+ dynamic metadata are transmitted from a UHD Blu-ray player / steaming player to a HDR10+ TV using the HDMI Vendor Specific InfoFrames (VSIF). VSIF has been specified since HDMI 1.4.
Normally, a HDMI 2.0x receiver ignores VSIF: it won’t transfer VSIF or HDR10+ dynamic metadata to a HDR10+ TV. It should be upgraded to forward VSIF, hence HDR10+ capable receiver.
https://hdguru.com/hdr10-looks-for-greater-availability-in-content-hardware/

Dolby Vision dynamic metadata, transmitted across HDMI (1.4), are embedded into the video signal.
Standard HDMI receivers should be upgraded to forward these embedded metadata, hence Dolby Vision capable receiver.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-high-dynamic-range-hdr-wide-color-gamut-wcg/2627409-universal-hdr-compliant-displays-6.html#post54128881

In the near future, the CTA-861-G/HDMI 2.1 HDR Dynamic Metadata Extended InfoFrame is used for delivering Dolby Vision / HDR10+ / Technicolor HDR dynamic metadata to a Dolby Vision / HDR10+ / Technicolor HDR compliant TV.
https://glenwing.github.io/docs/CTA-861-G.pdf

 

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The base layer of Profile 4 is BT.709 SDR: VUI = 1,1,1,0,0.
The base layer of Profile 7 is BT.2100 ST.2084 HDR10: VUI = 16,9,9,0,2.

"VUI: For both base layer and enhancement layer, the comma-separated five-part VUI value represents electro-optical transfer function (EOTF), color primaries, matrix, range, and chroma sample location type, respectively. For VUI value definition, see ITU-T H.265."
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-vision/dolby-vision-profiles-levels.pdf

EOTF / Transfer characteristic of Profile 4 = 1




EOTF / Transfer characteristic of Profile 7 = 16

I just took a look at some older docs, and Profile 4 has always had a SDR base Layer. That explains a lot, if the OTT supports 4, but the target display doesn't, the consumer gets a SDR stream. If the content is 5, the display must support it. If the display doesn't support 5, a error message is displayed.

As far as MEL enabled displays, they do support FEL. The disc player(Profile 7) handles the processing of FEL content. OTT is 10 bit, there is no need for the additional 2 bits of metadata, no HDR10 base layer to enhance.

Thanks Danba, that definitely cleared up some things for me.



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HDMI carriage of Dolby Vision / HDR10+ dynamic metadata

As HDMI 2.1 Dynamic HDR is not quite available for the time being, the HDMI carriage of Dolby Vision and HDR10+ dynamic metadata have been implemented in proprietary ways in some HDMI 2.0 products.
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/hdmi-21-features-start-trickling-av-gear#q7aCAXxdHlHkewzO.99

HDR10+ dynamic metadata are transmitted from a UHD Blu-ray player / steaming player to a HDR10+ TV using the HDMI Vendor Specific InfoFrames (VSIF). VSIF has been specified since HDMI 1.4.
Normally, a HDMI 2.0x receiver ignores VSIF: it won’t transfer VSIF or HDR10+ dynamic metadata to a HDR10+ TV. It should be upgraded to forward VSIF, hence HDR10+ capable receiver.
https://hdguru.com/hdr10-looks-for-greater-availability-in-content-hardware/

Dolby Vision dynamic metadata, transmitted across HDMI (1.4), are embedded into the video signal.
Standard HDMI receivers should be upgraded to forward these embedded metadata, hence Dolby Vision capable receiver.

This image suggest that Dolby Vision calibration could move away from RGB tunneling once HDMI 2.1 hits the market later next year. Older displays may still need it though.



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This image suggest that Dolby Vision calibration could move away from RGB tunneling once HDMI 2.1 hits the market later next year.
If you mean carriage then it's already possible to send YCC based DV via HDMI 2.0 if the video chain supports it.
Yeah, that and the HDMI 1.4 text in the image.
My point is "it's already possible to send YCC based DV via HDMI 2.0 if the video chain supports it." i.e. we don't have to wait for HDMI 2.1 (just as we don't have to wait for 2.1 to get changing metadata and everyone doing 4K has 2.0). E.g. the OPPO 203 uses YCC in Sony compatiblity mode. Your response doesn't seem apropos.

I don't know the specifics of that image but HDMI 1.4 is only relevant in terms of required bandwidth for [email protected] HDCP 2.2 is required so HDMI 2.0 is required.
 

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My point is "it's already possible to send YCC based DV via HDMI 2.0 if the video chain supports it." i.e. we don't have to wait for HDMI 2.1 (just as we don't have to wait for 2.1 to get changing metadata and everyone doing 4K has 2.0). E.g. the OPPO 203 uses YCC in Sony compatiblity mode. Your response doesn't seem apropos.

I don't know the specifics of that image but HDMI 1.4 is only relevant in terms of required bandwidth for [email protected] HDCP 2.2 is required so HDMI 2.0 is required.
I wasn't disagreeing with, just explaining why I thought maybe Dolby was moving away from RGB tunneling for DV calibration which is currently the method when calibrating with Calman software.

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Discussion Starter #417 (Edited)

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Discussion Starter #418
Multi-HDR

What’s the state of HDR formats?
https://blog.harmonicinc.com/reality-uhd-hdr-deployments/

"Right now you have several choices when it comes to HDR formats: PQ10, Dolby Vision, HLG10, HDR10+ and SL-HDR1.

HDR10 now supported by all TV manufacturers so it’s pretty much the de facto standard.

Dolby Vision is popular too. It’s the second leading standard deployed in TVs and the definite frontrunner for delivering a premium VOD experience.

Coming in third for most deployed is HLG. HLG is backed by 50 percent of TV manufacturers and supports a handful of live services.

HDR10+ (ST 2094-40) has limited support, mainly because it’s only been ratified on the production side with SMPTE. It is being standardized for transmission by the ATSC and DVB. Today, only Samsung, Panasonic and TP Vision support this standard.

Additionally, Philips/Technicolor SL-HDR1 (with a BT 709 base layer) is standardized by the ATSC and its evolution SL-HDR2 (with a PQ10 base layer) is now being proposed both in China and by the DVB."

 

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Discussion Starter #419 (Edited)

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