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HDR TV shall support all HDR formats.

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Discussion Starter #121
HDR10+: Samsung's dynamic HDR

Gerard Catapano, Director of Quality Assurance at Samsung's QA Lab in Pine Brook, "observed that Samsung HDR TVs for the 2017 model year "are ready for ST.2094-40"."
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=13309847&postcount=1311

"Samsung tells me that all its 2017 HDR TVs will support its new royalty-free dynamic metadata HDR system, which is going to be called HDR10+.
Samsung's [HDR10+ is a] proprietary (though open source, royalty-free) dynamic HDR system."
[John Archer]
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=13322030&postcount=1332
 

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Discussion Starter #123 (Edited)
Different Dynamic HDR solutions & different HDMI interfaces

There are many possible ways to use SMPTE ST 2094 dynamic metadata:

[The purpose of SMPTE ST 2094 is to enable adaptation of a video signal to a smaller color volume of the consumer TV.
Display adaptation is the adaptation of a video signal to a smaller color volume of the consumer TV driven by the metadata.]


. (Dolby) SMPTE ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata:
.. Live broadcasting:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-3.html#post49795977

10-bit PQ content >> broadcast network >> ST 2094-10 compliant set-top box: HEVC decoding > 10-bit PQ uncompressed video + ST 2086 static metadata + ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata >> HDMI 2.1 >> Dolby Vision TV capable of receiving ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata: display adaptation > display

10-bit PQ content >> broadcast network >> Dolby Vision TV capable of receiving the broadcast signal and ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata: HEVC decoding > display adaptation > display

To my knowledge, there is no such broadcast network for the time being.










.. Active HDR with Dolby Vision: an HDR10 display adaptation
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-4.html#post50857057

HDR10 disc > UHD Blu-ray player: HEVC decoding > 10-bit PQ uncompressed video + CTA HDR10 static metadata >> HDMI 2.0a >> Active HDR TV: ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata created on-the-fly by Active HDR > Dolby Vision display adaptation > display


. (Philips) SMPTE ST 2094-20 dynamic metadata:
http://www.ip.philips.com/licensing/program/113/philips-hdr-technology



Philips HDR disc > Philips HDR compliant UHD Blu-ray player: HEVC decoding > TV display adaptation driven by UHD Blu-ray Philips dynamic metadata / ST 2094-20 dynamic metadata > 10-bit PQ uncompressed video + CTA HDR10 static metadata >> HDMI 2.0a >> HDR10-compliant TV: only display

[No display adaptation is carried out by the TV because the color volume of the TV matches that of the incoming video signal.]

To my knowledge, there is no information about works on Philips HDR disc or Philips HDR compliant UHD Blu-ray player for the time being.

UHD Blu-ray Philips dynamic metadata and ST 2094-20 dynamic metadata are likely the same leaving out the standardization differences.
UHD Blu-ray specifications was completed before the completion of SMPTE ST 2094.


. (Technicolor) SMPTE ST 2094-30 dynamic metadata (& (Philips) ST 2094-20):
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-3.html#post49682777
http://www.technicolor.com/en/who-w...h-dynamic-range-hdr-distribution-technologies
http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/103400_103499/103433/01.01.01_60/ts_103433v010101p.pdf

" Advanced HDR [i.e. SDR-to-HDR upconversion + Technicolor HDR] is a universal distribution system supporting all formats of HDR."
https://twitter.com/Technicolor/status/817535919490146304





10-bit PQ content >> broadcast / broadband network >> ST 2094-30/20 compliant set-top box: HEVC decoding > TV display adaptation driven by ST 2094-30/20 dynamic metadata > 10-bit PQ uncompressed video + CTA HDR10 static metadata >> HDMI 2.0a >> HDR10 TV: only display

10-bit PQ content >> IP network >> Technicolor HDR-compliant TV: HEVC decoding > display adaptation driven by ST 2094-30/20 dynamic metadata > display

To my knowledge, there is no such operational distribution system for the time being.


. (Samsung) SMPTE ST 2094-40 dynamic metadata:
https://www.avforums.com/news/samsung-demonstrate-dynamic-metadata-at-ces-2017.13282
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...al-hdr-compliant-displays-5.html#post51330169

Samsung’s Dynamic HDR is going to be called HDR10+.

"Colorfront Transkoder 2017 is the latest release of Colorfront's standalone mastering system for UHDTV, HDR, and digital cinema and production. The version 2017 is now in preview, and is currently on track to a NAB 2017 launch and a spring release.
Working with HDR10, HDR10+, Dolby Vision, PQ and HLG variable encoding, the latest toolset in the Colorfront Transkoder system allows mastering for any and all of these formats, in the most efficient way.
The latest toolset will be unveiled, dealing with SMPTE ST 2094-xx dynamic metadata."
http://colorfront.com/email_hpa2017.html

Apparently, there is no leaked information about an update of Ultra HD Blu-ray specifications at least for the time being (i.e. Ultra HD Blu-ray only compatible with HDR10, Dolby Vision and Philips HDR).

HDR10+ content >> IP network >> HDR10+ compliant TV: HEVC decoding > display adaptation > display

HDR10+ content >> IP network >> HDR10+ compliant media player: HEVC decoding > 10-bit PQ uncompressed video + ST 2086 static metadata + ST 2094-40 dynamic metadata >> HDMI 2.1 >> HDR10+ compliant TV: display adaptation > display

 

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Discussion Starter #124

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Discussion Starter #125
Mobile HDR




. Mobile HDR & Netflix:
"Netflix will use Google's VP9 codec, which means shows can be compressed more effectively without adversely affecting quality. Smaller file sizes, better quality when your on-the-go signal isn't so hot, plus less data used overall. It's a win-win situation

For now this update applies for mobile only, with content delivered in up-to-1080p at various bitrates depending on the quality of connection. Netflix, at this time, has no plans to release 4K content for mobile - that's reserved for TVs via smart apps, compatible set-top boxes and consoles.

Just because there's no ultra-high definition for mobile, however, doesn't mean the streaming service isn't seeking out ways to improve quality. Mobile HDR will be available for the LG G6 at launch, with Dolby Vision support, meaning 10-bit colour and enhanced maximum brightness compared to a non-HDR handset. Other devices will follow (some with HDR10 only, not Dolby Vision), but Netflix isn't say exactly what or when."
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/140...ta-usage-incoming-mobile-hdr-for-lg-g6-launch



According to a Dolby VP, "Dolby Vision is codec-agnostic. Today, it is integrated with H.264 and HEVC but others like VP9 or AVS+ are also possible if required in the future".
http://tech.firstpost.com/news-anal...ver-dolbys-mike-chao-tells-us-how-309996.html


. Mobile HDR Premium – Ultra HD Alliance: HDR format-agnostic



"If the human eye was a digital camera, it’s "data sheet" would say that it has a 60 pixels/degree at the fovea (the part of the retina where the visual acuity is highest). This is called eye-limiting resolution."
http://sensics.com/understanding-pixel-density-and-eye-limiting-resolution/



http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDens2In...izeUnit:in,axis:diag,distance:9.2,distUnit:in
 

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Discussion Starter #127
Multi-HDR support

Multi-HDR support - Current situation



. HEVC HLG HDR content:
http://4kmedia.org/travelxp-4k-hdr-hlg-sample/

. VP9-PQ YouTube HDR content:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/161-c...ce-hdr-video-play-youtube-5.html#post48695913

. VP9-HLG YouTube HDR content:
If the TV is not compatible with YouTube HDR, YouTube will automatically detect it and down convert the HDR video to SDR.
Otherwise, there is an indication that the TV is switching into HDR mode (for example, HDR icon in a corner of the screen).
 

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Multi-HDR support - Current situation
Many thanks for doing that table!

On my 2016 Samsung, that clip doesn't work. TV refuses to play it. Fair enough we thought, even though Samsung has promised a HLG firmware upgrade they haven't announced that it's ready.
However, it DOES play this HLG demo properly, and its the metadata says it's HLG:
http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=158
:confused:

If the TV is not compatible with YouTube HDR, YouTube will automatically detect it and down convert the HDR video to SDR.
Otherwise, there is an indication that the TV is switching into HDR mode (for example, HDR icon in a corner of the screen).
If your TV is crap and doesn't tell you, or you miss it, you might like to add in a tip that if you pause a YouTube video, it shows a "HDR" tag generated by the App at the top of the screen.
 

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Discussion Starter #129
HLG vs. PQ

HLG vs. PQ10 (i.e. HEVC HLG HDR vs. HDR10 when the static metadata are not used):
http://ultrahdforum.org/subjective-comparison-of-hlg-and-and-pq10/

"There an interesting new technical report just out where 4 independent test labs (the IRT, Orange, the RAI and the EBU) teamed up to perform subjective tests comparing HLG and PQ10 as well as native SDR vs SDR from an HLG bit-stream.
Results show PQ10 and HLG providing a similar user experience [Test 1] and also that HLG backwards compatibility works from a user experience point of view [Test 2]."

 

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HLG vs. PQ10 (i.e. HEVC HLG HDR vs. HDR10 when the static metadata are not used):
http://ultrahdforum.org/subjective-comparison-of-hlg-and-and-pq10/

"There an interesting new technical report just out where 4 independent test labs (the IRT, Orange, the RAI and the EBU) teamed up to perform subjective tests comparing HLG and PQ10 as well as native SDR vs SDR from an HLG bit-stream.
Results show PQ10 and HLG providing a similar user experience [Test 1] and also that HLG backwards compatibility works from a user experience point of view [Test 2]."

The results are a biased to a degree by the fact that testing was built around a 1000 nits peak luminance workflow. It's not particularly surprising that if you limit PQ to the same brightness as HLG, AND do not make use of dynamic metadata, they will perform relatively similar. It mostly comes to down to the quality of compression at that point, and existing codecs have historically been optimized for a gamma encoding, which potentially gives HLG an advantage in that part of the test.

"The version of the encoder that was used had an enhanced HDR psychovisual rate control dedicated to each transfer function for luminance and it also supported inclusion of the appropriate HDR metadata and signalling when applicable. This approach is typical and adequate for an advanced state-of-the-art encoder. The extent to which the psychovisual rate control adapts to a transfer function is dependent on the implementation and thus may lead to enhanced test results in the future."
 

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Do you think YouTube could support other HDR format to accommodate users without VP9 10bit. Is this just hardware decode chip and cannot be updated via firmware? I'm really mad that my 2016 HDR LG tv won't be able to play YouTube HDR. It's not a HDR tv then. Total scam.:mad:
 

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Do you think YouTube could support other HDR format to accommodate users without VP9 10bit.
YouTube supports HLG HDR as well.
 

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Do you think YouTube could support other HDR format to accommodate users without VP9 10bit. Is this just hardware decode chip and cannot be updated via firmware? I'm really mad that my 2016 HDR LG tv won't be able to play YouTube HDR. It's not a HDR tv then. Total scam.:mad:
YouTube supports HLG HDR as well.
YouTube supports PQ(HDR10) and HLG based HDR. But they both require VP9 profile 2. If YouTube HDR is that important to you, I suggest you buy a Chromecast Ultra.
 

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Yeah I hope YouTube supports HEVC HDR in the future as well...their really limiting their customer base with only VP9 profile 2 hardware acceptance.
 

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Yeah I hope YouTube supports HEVC HDR in the future as well...their really limiting their customer base with only VP9 profile 2 hardware acceptance.
Eh? How much do you pay them, then? (Their customers are the advertisers. You and I are the product that the advertisers are paying YouTube for).

We might be viewers and users, but we definitely aren't YouTube's customers.
 

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Discussion Starter #138 (Edited)
... I've also heard YouTube supports HLG, but I dont think there are any videos available yet...
"I did a secret internal YouTube thing and updated the video to be 60fps as originally shot. So this is the first UHD, HDR, HFR, HLG video on YouTube. Next one will add WCG to the acronym train.

Shot on URSA Mini 4.6k, graded in HLG 1.2 / Rec 709 on the BVM-X300."
[Steven Robertson - YouTube team]


"We're back to Rec. 2020 color on this one, so things will look a little more desaturated than usual unless you're viewing this on a compatible device. Still using Hybrid Log-Gamma for the transfer function, still shot with URSA Mini 4.6k and mastered on the BVM-X300. Everything was shot at 60fps and edited down to 24 one way or another."
[Steven Robertson - YouTube team]

 

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Yeah I hope YouTube supports HEVC HDR in the future as well...their really limiting their customer base with only VP9 profile 2 hardware acceptance.
They are on to something with VP9.p2. I bought the Chromecast Ultra ($59.99) to add to my E6. Their 2160p60 VP9.p2 encoded video quality easily surpasses anything I stream via Netflix or Amazon in UHD.

I had no Chromecast devices [and I use the DirecTV Now service] which helped me justify the cost of the CU. Unfortunately, Dolby Vision between the CU and 2016 LGs is still not working. I'm hoping it will be resolved by the end of this month. My expectation is that it will be by the time the LG and Oppo UHD Blu-ray players enable Dolby Vision.

I don't think many of us would flinch at the time of sale if you were asked if you wanted to enable YouTube HDR and Googlecast for $60. No?
 
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