[jjl4004]

During my search for a new AVR, I've noticed some models have up-scaling and some don't. As I've read through this forum, I've seen people comment on the quality of one video processing chip over another, etc. However, I've also seen people say that if you have a Blu-ray player and a 1080p HD TV, you don't need a receiver that has up-scaling capability because either the Blu-ray player or HD TV will do just as good of a job up-scaling as an AVR would. If this statement is true, my questions are:


1)What is the purpose of having an up-scaling AVR if the TV/Blu-ray player does it for you?


2)Why would AVR manufacturers spend the money to put the up-scaling capability into their AVRs?


3)Why would you ever need an AVR to up-scale? If the TV is not HD, it won't provide a HD picture anyway and if it is a HD TV, it'll already upscale automatically.


If there is a true value to having an AVR up-scale video content, what is it? The receivers I've been looking at are ranging from $350-$700, so maybe the video chips in higher-end AVRs really do make a differenceI don't know. I feel like I'm missing something here

 

[MichaelJHuman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjl4004 /forum/post/20839092


During my search for a new AVR, I've noticed some models have up-scaling and some don't. As I've read through this forum, I've seen people comment on the quality of one video processing chip over another, etc. However, I've also seen people say that if you have a Blu-ray player and a 1080p HD TV, you don't need a receiver that has up-scaling capability because either the Blu-ray player or HD TV will do just as good of a job up-scaling as an AVR would. If this statement is true, my questions are:


1)What is the purpose of having an up-scaling AVR if the TV/Blu-ray player does it for you?


2)Why would AVR manufacturers spend the money to put the up-scaling capability into their AVRs?


3)Why would you ever need an AVR to up-scale? If the TV is not HD, it won't provide a HD picture anyway and if it is a HD TV, it'll already upscale automatically.


If there is a true value to having an AVR up-scale video content, what is it? The receivers I've been looking at are ranging from $350-$700, so maybe the video chips in higher-end AVRs really do make a differenceI don't know. I feel like I'm missing something here

1) None

2) because they think it sells product, or they are idiots (you choose the most likely answer)

3) If your DVD player can't properly deinterlace/scale, and/or your TV can't it might help (For example, the XBox 360 has a hideous deinterlacer, and my Z7 can correct that - not that I use the 360 to watch DVDs, but I did test it); Also note that some VP's do more than deinterlace/scale


For more details on this, see the AVR FAQ

 

[M Code]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjl4004 /forum/post/20839092


During my search for a new AVR, I’ve noticed some models have up-scaling and some don’t. As I’ve read through this forum, I’ve seen people comment on the quality of one video processing chip over another, etc. However, I’ve also seen people say that if you have a Blu-ray player and a 1080p HD TV, you don’t need a receiver that has up-scaling capability because either the Blu-ray player or HD TV will do just as good of a job up-scaling as an AVR would. If this statement is true, my questions are:


1)What is the purpose of having an up-scaling AVR if the TV/Blu-ray player does it for you?


2)Why would AVR manufacturers spend the money to put the up-scaling capability into their AVRs?


3)Why would you ever need an AVR to up-scale? If the TV is not HD, it won’t provide a HD picture anyway and if it is a HD TV, it’ll already upscale automatically.


If there is a true value to having an AVR up-scale video content, what is it? The receivers I’ve been looking at are ranging from $350-$700, so maybe the video chips in higher-end AVRs really do make a difference…I don’t know. I feel like I’m missing something here…

Virtually all AVRs selling for $349 SRP and higher include video upscaling..

The video upscaling chip also does:
1. Transcoding such as composite or component video to HDMI
2. OSD graphics

Both of these features are required within an AVR so the brands use a single chip. And now that HD streams and sources are more commonplace today, video upscaling is less required. The 1st AVR with video upscaling was the Harman/Kardon AVR7300 introduced in 2004....


Just my $0.02...

 

[jdsmoothie]

^^

You'll need to exclude Denon from that list as their lowest level model with a video chip is now MSRP $850 and the lowest level model that does analog --> HDMI conversion is $550.

 

[jjl4004]

Thanks guys, so from what I'm reading, a video chip/processor is not as important for actual up-scaling...it's more for the ability to include a better OSD/GUI, transcoding, etc.


Seems like what I thought was a big deal (having up-scaling capability) shouldn't really influence my decision on what receiver I purchase.


The more I research, the more I think my decision will be based more on the audio correction system being used (Audyssey/Yamaha's/Pioneer's) and audio sound quality/reputation than anything else.

 

[KidHorn]

The only reason you would need it nowadays is if you're using an older technology like DVD and the TV does a poor job of upscaling 480 to 720 or 1080.


I think many manufacturers include it because it's cheaper to include it then to create a new design without it.


If you have a TV made in the last few years and a blu-ray player and a HD cable or satellite box, there's no need for it.

 

[skvinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn /forum/post/20842340


The only reason you would need it nowadays is if you're using an older technology like DVD and the TV does a poor job of upscaling 480 to 720 or 1080.


I think many manufacturers include it because it's cheaper to include it then to create a new design without it.


If you have a TV made in the last few years and a blu-ray player and a HD cable or satellite box, there's no need for it.

I heard from a dealer (I know - that's why I'm asking here) that a good video scaler can make even high def tv shows look better b/c some of them are broadcast in 720p vs. 1080p. Is that true? Is it really noticeable? I have a Samsung HL72A 650. I don't know if it does anything to the signal. I'm not worried about dvds, b/c I have an Oppo 93, but if tv shows can look better, then video processing is worth considering. If not, great to not have to consider another feature when looking for a new pre/pro or receiver.

 

[jdsmoothie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjl4004 /forum/post/20841527


Thanks guys, so from what I'm reading, a video chip/processor is not as important for actual up-scaling...it's more for the ability to include a better OSD/GUI, transcoding, etc.

Denon AVRs don't use a dedicated video chip for the OSD/GUI rather only for the deinterlacing/upscaling and as noted in my post above, Denon has opted to no longer include that in the lower level models from the 2112CI and below. If improving video quality is important to you, a better option is to buy a dedicated video processor (eg. DVDO Edge).

 

[schan1269]

In my opinion upconversion is more important than upscaling(within the realm of the AVR).


Most DVD/BD players that have HDMI already have better scalers than AVR do. TV's made within the last 3 years(unless you are talking a crappy Vizio/RCA/Aura) also have better scalers than AVR.


Scaling in an AVR is for those people(like me) that still use VHS/Laserdisc/CED or watch shows/channels that aren't HD yet(Military channel).


So if the third part of this post DOES NOT describe your AV situation...you couldn't care less about scaling in the AVR.

 

[jjl4004]

Thanks guys, I'm hearing a lot of what I thought might be true about up-scaling. I appreciate your input. JD, Schan and MichaelJ...thank you guys for your input into this forum. I've read a lot of your posts and they've taught me a lot.


I've made my decision and bought a Denon 2112ci today. I'm going to revive one of my older threads to 'complete' it and explain my reasoning/thoughts behind the purchase.

 

[skvinson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by schan1269 In my opinion upconversion is more important than upscaling(within the realm of the AVR).

I thought the two terms were interchangeable, and referred to taking a lower resolution signal (e.g., 720p) and raising it (e.g., to 1080p). What's the difference?

 

[schan1269]

HDMI upconversion is(and only means this) taking analog(which is component/S-video/composite) and adding it to the HDMI...NOTHING more.


Upscaling is taking 480i-p and "creating" 720P/1080i-p out of it. (and no matter how you set it...if you have a 720P signal...all scalers ignore it and pass it untouched...except for some TV's)


And no, a receiver does NOT have to have both. There have been receivers made with upscaling...but not upconversion(though not many).


Denon makes 2(maybe 3???) XX12 models with upconversion and no upscaling.


Usually upconversion happens on the 2nd or 3rd receiver in the line-up, then upscaling joins in by the 4th one...if not included on the prior one.


Take Integra. Integra doesn't make a receiver without upconversion anymore. Hasn't for 2 years now(maybe 3???). But the bottom receiver doesn't include a scaler...just the 2nd one on up.