Upconverting to 1080P vs HD-DVD

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ultra_miner

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 19, 2007

Thanks for the quick reply.

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Up converting is ......Horse radish, spare the money and get a HD player there cheap now and you cant beat the clarity and color depth of true HD.

Esp with a large screen, the larger you go the better it look's

I had a A1, bought it dirt cheap last sept as a open box, at the time i had only a 42" plasma, sure it looked great over SD but i sold it for a large profit and got into projectors, now i wish i had it back but the price is dropping fast and soon the chinese players will be out.

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ultra_miner

Discussion Starter · #5 · May 19, 2007

Thanks for the info guys. Yeah it sounds like BR or HD-DVD is the the only way to go. I just thought I would let the format war end before jumping in, by getting the upconverting dvd. But with my 61" at 8' I should just dive in and get the true HD DVD. The Samsung TV does a pretty good job of upconverting. I do have XBox 360 so I could just get the HD-DVD add on for $200 for now and keep looking for a good stand alone. I live in Wyoming so HD sources are hard to find. I have D*TV, so the HD PQ isn't the greatest and the cable co. here isn't the best PQ either and I know it's all about what you feed these TV's. Thanks for the replies again, I love this site it's taught me a lot.

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slimoli

· #6 · May 19, 2007

I just returned my Samsung 1080P7 because the upconversion to 1080P is mediocre. Watching a standard DVD on my Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player produces a picture very close to HD , in my view better than most HD-LITE from Directv. Watching a good HD-DVD disk , however, is even better. My conclusion: Cheap upconvertion DVD players won't make you happy. Many people here say the Oppo is the only exception but I would go with the XA-2 or a high-end player if you want the best standard DVD picture.

I am waiting for a good BD player to replace my PS3 because the "jet engine" sound produced by the fan is unbearable. The new Panny sounds promising.

Sergio

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ChrisWiggles

· #7 · May 19, 2007

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Upscaling is like lottery tickets: "A tax on the poor & ignorant"!

You know, that's a pretty untrue statement. Staggeringly so.

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ultra_miner

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 19, 2007

Why would that be? Do you have a different take on upscaling?

Chris I just read your source setting guide and found it very interesting and helpful. There is a lot to learn in this field. Unfortunately this is just a hobby for me right now, hopefully if I can learn just 1% of what you guys know I will have a suitable picture to watch for a noob like me.

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PooperScooper

· #9 · May 19, 2007

The lottery ticket part is true but I don't think the upscaling part is a good analogy. Too many TVs have crappy scalers. However, all upscaling players are not created equal.

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ChrisWiggles

· #10 · May 19, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra_miner /forum/post/0

Why would that be? Do you have a different take on upscaling?

Well, quality upscaling can be important, and is the best way to display any image. That being said, most displays nowadays will scale on their own, so the question then is more about the relative quality of the processing in a display versus a source or other standalone processors etc. There was another post in the thread which seemed to imply that upscaling was worthless, or, if I interpreted the lottery ticket thing which is often referred to as a "tax on stupidity", one might draw the conclusion that scaling capabilities are likewise unmerited wastes of money when this is not at all true.

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Huey

· #11 · May 20, 2007

Upscaling is useless to some because they may have 480p projector like Infocus SP4805 or IN72 which is native res. of SD-DVD.

Most of us on the other hand has 720p or better displays and can benefit from a good upscaling DVD player (preferably a HD-DVD machine like Tosh XA2 with Reon VX chipset)

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cavu

· #12 · May 20, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey /forum/post/0

Upscaling is useless to Cavu because he still has a 480p projector which is native res. of SD-DVD.

Most of us on the other hand has 720p or better displays and can benefit from a good upscaling DVD player (preferably a HD-DVD machine like Tosh XA2 with Reon VX chipset.

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ChrisWiggles

· #13 · May 20, 2007

Why the eyeroll? His post was perfectly adequate and reasoned and correct.

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cavu

· #14 · May 20, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/0

Why the eyeroll? His post was perfectly adequate and reasoned and correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey /forum/post/0

Upscaling is useless to Cavu because he still has a 480p projector

Huey (apparently) has no idea of what gear I have or what my experience is but nonetheless implies that I have no basis in fact for my comments about "upscaling". That is worthy of

!

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Huey

· #15 · May 21, 2007

Cavu, I have no doubt you have incredible knowledge and skills concerning AV, but you are very opinionated and borderline rude at times. You have taught me and others a lot about AV, but you can always be more open minded. Learning is constant and daily. Even if you have a lot of knowledge, you can always learn more. I learn every day in everything. I'm not ashamed or arrogant enough to admit that. You have your opinion and I have mine. Fortunately (this time), my response is appropriate

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ChrisWiggles

· #16 · May 21, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu /forum/post/0

Huey (apparently) has no idea of what gear I have or what my experience is but nonetheless implies that I have no basis in fact for my comments about "upscaling". That is worthy of

!

I didn't see that his post had anything to do with you, your experiences, your gear, or any postings you made here.

Beside the fact that his post was basically technically accurate, it seems to me like you are insinuating things(specifically negative things) about upscaling and not substantiating them or making them even explicit.

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cavu

· #17 · May 21, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/0

I didn't see that his post had anything to do with you, your experiences, your gear, or any postings you made here.

It appears he editted his post but it originally read: "Upscaling is useless to Cavu because he still has a 480p projector", a fact you could not have missed if you actually read the quoted text in my post.

Quote:
it seems to me like you are insinuating things ... about upscaling and not substantiating them or making them even explicit.

Again, you seem to have trouble reading! If you review my sig (which is at issue ... not any posting I have made), you will find below my tag line the word "See:" followed by a link to a thread where others, not I, make an excellent argument about the merits/demerits of "upscaling".

My basic point is that the unwashed are being sold a bill of goods by the manufacturers and vendors that "upscaling" players are an absolute necessity and will change their lives. These poor people don't have any idea what upscaling is let alone the fact that their displays already perform that function.

Certainly, some players will upscale better than some displays. I know that. You know that.

But the average Joe doesn't quite comprehend the fact that upscaling a 480i DVD signal to 1080i/p which is then fed to a "720p" display (which is often actually a 768p display in which the internal scaler cannot be defeated) is not going to improve his PQ.

But check the link I reference. The posters there make a much more thorough argument than I have made here.

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cavu

· #18 · May 21, 2007

2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey /forum/post/0

you are very opinionated and borderline rude at times.

I'm old and tired and have no time for vacuous claims by uninformed people. I don't have the breath in me to repeat every argument, every time. I have opinions but I also have facts. Opinions are debatable. Facts are not. And I don't have the patience to explain the difference.

"Borderline rude"? You are kind.

Quote:
you can always be more open minded. Learning is constant and daily.

Learning is a lifetime project in which I am heavily engaged.

It is incorrect to assume that I am close-minded when I dismiss baffle gab out of hand. Facts are facts. The laws of nature haven't changed recently and have not done so very often.

I have spend over 40 years developing, patenting, designing, manufacturing and, yes, even marketing (

) professional equipment for the broadcast and recording industries. I have the T-shirt that says "Been there, done that".

When you get a few more miles under your feet, you may understand.

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ChrisWiggles

· #19 · May 21, 2007

Quote:
Again, you seem to have trouble reading

That's right. I have an extreme difficulty reading words that do not exist as far as I saw in the postings.

I also have an extreme difficulty reading words into emoticons.

Your childish attitude is not worth my time. The link is a fine one, by the way, something that apparently is lost on you even as you parade it about with your arrogant manner.

The bottom line is that upscaling an image to a theoretically infinite resolution for display is the best way to render any continuous tone image. Doing this properly is the key, and nowadays many(not all) consumer displays have some scaling/processing capabilities. For those without, a separate video scaler is often extremely beneficial, for those that do have processing capabilities, it depends on the relative quality between devices, though few budget consumer display have very good scaling.

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