[mariop]

I currently have a 5.1 system using B&W 600 series components. I have the 603's up front , 602's in back, CDM SE center and ASW 600 sub. I wanna move up to 7.1 in my new HT (15x26) and I'm not sure exactly which way to go. I could get another pair of 602's and be done with it, but that would possibly put direct driving speakers too close to some listening positions. So I thought about di-poles like the current DS7 or the older DS6 or SCM8 (I particularly liked the downfiring triangular design of the SCM8 for positioning as side speakers, but they are hard to find).


I've learned a lot by reading this forum, but it also left me confused as how to upgrade. It appears that dipoles have fallen out of favor. If I go with another pair of 602's, what is the minimum distance to the closest listening position? I'm afraid the person closest to that speaker may be fatigued by having that one channel right in their ear.


If I got with dipoles, should they go on the side or on the back? Or do I need to get rid of the 602's and do dipoles for all the surround?


If I keep the 602's in the back, can they go in the corners or do they have to stay on the back wall?


One last question, I'm not sure if my CMD SE center is working well with my fronts. Would a LCR600 be a better choice?


TIA,

Mario

 

[rocky1]

I can only answer you concerning the center.I have the 603s3 w/lcr600s3.The lcr600 is the match for those speakers.The one you are presently using is not.Now i cant answer how it sounds only you can.But if you can see if you can audition the 600 and call it a day.

 

[BNW]

Sorry for the late reply. I have the 605s2 towers w the lcr600 center & 602s. I would HIGHLY suggest upgrading the front 3 B4 u spend for any rears

 

[sdurani]

Mario,
Quote:

I could get another pair of 602's and be done with it, but that would possibly put direct driving speakers too close to some listening positions....I'm afraid the person closest to that speaker may be fatigued by having that one channel right in their ear.

That's a legitimate concern. You mentioned that your room is 15 feet wide; what is the closest a listener would end up being to one of the side walls?
Quote:

If I got with dipoles, should they go on the side or on the back? Or do I need to get rid of the 602's and do dipoles for all the surround?

Varies with personal taste. Dipoles usually go at the sides because it allows all listeners to sit in the speakers' null areas. In a 7.1 set-up, side speakers tend to be the ones that provide most of the envelopment in the surround field, so dipoles can be a good choice for that purpose. While rear speakers also provide a bit of envelopment, they are used mostly for directional effects (e.g., front-to-back flyovers) so monopoles tend to be preferred at that location to anchor sounds to the back wall.
Quote:

If I keep the 602's in the back, can they go in the corners or do they have to stay on the back wall?

Depends on your listening position in the room. You mentioned that your room is 26 feet long; how far is the seating area from the back wall?


Your RX-V2400 has Dolby Pro Logic IIx processing, which extracts the surround-back channels in stereo. If your rear speakers are too close together, you won't properly hear the stereo rear effect. If they're spread too wide apart, they be too near the side speakers and you won't properly hear the rear-vs-side effect that makes 7.1 set-ups so exciting.


See the attached drawing for a good starting point for 7.1 speaker placement.


Best,

Sanjay

 

[tweeterex]

There's a new verion of the DS6, and I think that would work out great at the sides.

 

[mariop]

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it.


I'm really happy with my 603's and I'm curious why you'd suggest upgrading them instead of buying side speakers. My system is used mostly for movies/TV/video games and I figured the two new channels and their location would provide a much more noticeable improvement for the average listener.


My side aisles are 2 feet wide, so the outside listener could be as close as 2 feet from a side speaker if the speaker is ear level. This is where I'm thinking of putting dipoles higher on the wall.


Due to doorways and room layout, my riser can't stretch to far from the back wall. Therefore I need those seating positions as close to the back wall as possible and no more then 2 feet away when chairs are leaned back. This is tough with the 602's being close to a foot deep by themselves. I'm not opposed to putting the 602's up high aiming downward. Putting them in the corners would give the most distance from listeners, but might be too much of a compromise.


What is the new version of the DS6? I'm familiar with the S2 and S3, but neither is new as far as I know. The only current dipoles on their website that I found are the DS7 and DS8, both of which are out of my budget.

 

[sdurani]

Mario,
Quote:

My side aisles are 2 feet wide, so the outside listener could be as close as 2 feet from a side speaker if the speaker is ear level. This is where I'm thinking of putting dipoles higher on the wall.

Good idea. A speaker screaming 2 feet from one of your ears can be distracting. With dipoles on either sides of the listeners, they will all be sitting in the speakers' nulls. Most of what they hear will be reflected sound off the wall and very little direct sound. It will be enveloping without being distracting. But in order for this to work, the side speakers have to be directly at the sides of the listeners.
Quote:

I need those seating positions as close to the back wall as possible and no more then 2 feet away when chairs are leaned back.

Not sure I understand. Do yo have more than one row of seating? If so, how far back from the sweet spot (middle of first row) is the back wall?


Sanjay

 

[mariop]

I have two fixed rows with some overflow down in front. The primary row of seats is about about 15 feet from the screen and 11 feet from the back wall. My riser can only stretch out about 8 feet from the back wall. The row of seats on the riser need to be as far back as possible to allow walking room.


The side speakers would be in line with the primary row of seats. The back speakers would be behind the outside seats on the back row.

 

[sdurani]

Mario,
Quote:

The side speakers would be in line with the primary row of seats.

Perfect!
Quote:

The primary row of seats is about about 15 feet from the screen and 11 feet from the back wall.

OK, if you refer back to the drawing I posted, you'll notice that the rear speakers are at the +/- 150 degree points of the sweet spot. If you want to have that placement, your rear speakers should be spread roughly 13 feet apart on the back wall. Is that do-able?


Sanjay

 

[Blindamood]

Another option you may consider (depending on your room) is to use in-wall or ceiling speakers for the back channels. I'm not familiar with the model numbers, but you should be able to get something from B&W that matches the 600 series.

 

[mariop]

A 13 foot spread in the rear is easy, but it puts each speaker only a foot away from the side wall. I thought I didn't want them that close to the side so their sound is well distinguished from the dipoles on the sides.


As for in-wall speakers, I've always thought the cabinet was really important for the sound of a speaker and going that route was a compromise. Plus I'm already spending a lot of money on sound isolation and in-walls would go against that.

 

[sdurani]

Mario,
Quote:

A 13 foot spread in the rear is easy, but it puts each speaker only a foot away from the side wall. I thought I didn't want them that close to the side so their sound is well distinguished from the dipoles on the sides.

With the rear speakers eleven feet behind the side speakers, the two pairs of surrounds should be well distinguished from each other. The surround-back channel(s) will clearly be heard from behind you; not from your sides.


Best,

Sanjay

 

[mariop]

Excellent! Do you believe this to be true even when use dipoles on the sides? Even for the rear row of seats?

 

[sdurani]

Mario,
Quote:

Do you believe this to be true even when use dipoles on the sides?

The rear-vs-side separation will be less audible with dipole side speakers. This is because dipoles aren't very localizable and won't give you precise imaging at your sides. After all, you're going to be sitting in their nulls (quiet zones) and their drivers are going to be spraying sound along the side walls (don't put absorbtive treatments near them).


So rather than hearing something directly to your left or right, you'll hear a more diffuse and enveloping sound. This doesn't mean you'll lose the left-vs-right effect in the surround field, it just means that you'll hear it as a left-wall-of-sound versus a right-wall-of-sound.


Sounds from behind you will clearly appear to come from that direction because you're using direct-firing monopoles, which are much more directional than dipoles.
Quote:

Even for the rear row of seats?

The rear row of seats won't get this effect. The surround-back channel won't sound like it's coming from behind them because there will be no speakers behind them (there's no room). Likewise, they won't be in the null of the dipole speakers; the rear drivers of the dipoles will be facing listeners in the second row. Also, when you calibrate, the volume levels and distances and EQ are going to be set for the first row (centre seat, where you place the calibration mic) so the sound isn't going to be dialed in for the rear row of seats.


Sorry, there's no way around that. For example: your front speakers cannot physically be the same exact distance away from listeners in both rows. You could try to average the numbers (volume & distances), somehow trying to even it out for both rows. But I'm afraid that will simply end up compromising the sound for all listeners. Better to the optimize the experience for one primary location/row and let the rest of the seats fall where they may.


Good Luck,

Sanjay