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I looked into Ascends when I first started checking things out and maybe briefly glanced at Wharefedale. Yep, I priced the Sierra-1s at around the $3k mark. Everyone seems to rave about their musical capabilities, but I put them lower on my list cause I couldn't find much out there from HT standpoint. Still up there with the Emos and Chaines?
I currently have an Ascend Sierra-2EX for my fronts and the original Sierra-2 for surrounds. I have the Ascend HTM-200 for the heights, but if you're on a budget, you can use them for the surrounds. You thought of going with Lunas is also a good one. The front 3 speakers are the most important in the setup. I'm not a believer in music speakers vs. HT speakers. I think a good speaker is a good speaker. That being said, they sound great in both roles.

As for subwoofers, also take a look at Power Sound Audio. One of the founders of SVS started the new brand. Their subwoofers aren't cheap, but they are incredible performers.
 

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Can't rotate unfortunately. The couch will be pulled out 3 feet or so from the back wall. Thanks for the reccos on the subs. The $3K budget would be for the speakers.
Perfect on pulling the couch off the wall. I have mine around 4' and it works great.

You're getting a lot of recommendations for the Emotivas, and while they're a good speaker for the price they are not as neutral as some suggest. They have a built in "consumer" curve to their response. Accented bass and elevated treble. Kind of like hitting the loudness button on older AVRs. The treble rise is pretty steep but it occurs fairly far up the range so depending on your hearing it may not be an issue. This is based on reviews that I've seen that had measurements.

As for Kef, I love mine but I wouldn't pay retail for the towers. I had to pay retail for the center since it never seems to go on sale in the US.

The Wharfedale 11/12 series would work well and save some money over the Evos and would have similar sound characteristics and probably a larger soundstage.
 
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That's a great idea, thank you. I thought I saw something about Chane possibly coming out with a 3 way center, the A6.5? I noticed in one of your posts on the C2+ that you mentioned the 3 way design. That seem like a really good feature considering the heavy lifting the CC does in HT mode.
Oh wow, hadn't heard that about Chane...would be very curious to see what a 3-way A series center would be like...wonder how much it'll cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Oh wow, hadn't heard that about Chane...would be very curious to see what a 3-way A series center would be like...wonder how much it'll cost.
Yeah! I saw it on their forum today. Two 6.5" and a 5" mid. I'm really curious as well. The ONE thing that really made me lean closer to the Emotivas was the C2+. I know how big of a deal it is to have a good center channel. I'm not in a huge rush and can wait. It's going to take me a while as I'll be buying portions of this set up over the next several months. I can always keep an eye out for availability and it may give me some time to do a taste test.

Perfect on pulling the couch off the wall. I have mine around 4' and it works great.

You're getting a lot of recommendations for the Emotivas, and while they're a good speaker for the price they are not as neutral as some suggest. They have a built in "consumer" curve to their response. Accented bass and elevated treble. Kind of like hitting the loudness button on older AVRs. The treble rise is pretty steep but it occurs fairly far up the range so depending on your hearing it may not be an issue. This is based on reviews that I've seen that had measurements.

As for Kef, I love mine but I wouldn't pay retail for the towers. I had to pay retail for the center since it never seems to go on sale in the US.

The Wharfedale 11/12 series would work well and save some money over the Evos and would have similar sound characteristics and probably a larger soundstage.
I think I understand what you're saying. Is that something that would be EQd out? I doubt I would notice anyway. I meant to ask you about your KEFs. I considered them for a minute, but thought the same as you regarding the price. Those are the 2.5 way, right?

I think for Wharfedale, I would go for the slightly smaller Evo 4.3 with a flat tweeter vs. the larger 12. A big soundstage is important to me, but clarity over that, I think.
 

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These seem all out of my price range. You make it sound like I will not be satisfied with the volume of "traditional" home hifi speakers. I'm not looking for ear splitting levels here. Just want to be floored when on the couch watching a movie or have some music on and still be able to enjoy quality sound.
What is the one advise you often see with speakers in general?
Oh! these are really great speakers, BUT if you add high power amp like 200wpc or 300wpc power amp, these speakers really open up. There is a reason why people spend lot of money on expensive high power amps.

No one listens to at ear splitting level regularly, nor they are suggesting getting higher power amp will make speakers louder. What people in general mean to say and experience with high power amp going to speakers is speakers ability be dynamic, be clean (Higher available power means lower distortions and less struggle on speakers), balanced sound (Treble needs less power vs bass) and over all better sounding speakers vs lower power available.

So, you either take the traditional speakers with 84db to 90db sensitivity and then add more powerful and expensive amp to make them really open up, or you get the speakers with higher sensitivity which does above all with lot less power (say your traditional avr). In the end, physics does play its role, size does matter in speakers.

Having gone down to similar path to yours and like most, I have tried many different brands of speakers, some bookshelves and some much more expensive towers. In the end, I was never really satisfied with them, they didn't bring that cinematic sound, didn't sound big (not loud but big sounding), they just weren't dynamic enough, until I tried the mentioned Behringer b215xl speakers. Mind you, these are 15inch speakers but has almost no output below 80hz and subwoofer is a must with them. But what they do above that is simply amazing. And for less than $350 -$400 for a pair, it wouldn't hurt to give them a try. If their size is a concern, then give their 12inch versions a try, they are essentially same. There is a 5+ years long running thread about these speakers for a reason.

My room is only 4m x 3.8m and I certainly do not listen to reference level, still having these high sensitivity speakers it makes world of difference. To give you an example, the movie Star Trek (2009) the opening scene when Nero's ship comes out of wormhole with the music and the note playing. When watching this scene with my previous speakers, the sound didn't seem to match what I was watching, there was no sense of large scale. And when I watched the same scene with Behringer speakers, all of sudden my TV started to feel small compare to the large scale sound (again this at the normal volume level not reference level).
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Also, plan on replacing the Klipsch sub. It's really weak and probably the source of your boominess. A pair of HSU VTF2.5s would be a little over $1200 with shipping. A pair of SVS PB1000pros would be $1100 and would be a good choice to. Leaves you around $1800 for speakers if the cost of the AVR is not included in your $3K budget.
Two quality subs at once may be doable, and I agree, getting rid of the Klipsch is in the cards. Would a better sub behave OK with the Klipsch and vice versa? I also noticed you recommended a couple of 10 inchers. Is going to 10" subs more suitable for my situation vs. 12s? Pretty sure moar is not better in my case here in terms of driver size. I did see a few comments out there about not going below 12", though. I'll definitely be using two subs though, they just may be mismatched at first. Or would I be better off not hooking up the Klipsch at all and go with whatever single I get at first? Could always try and see how they sound together.
 

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Two quality subs at once may be doable, and I agree, getting rid of the Klipsch is in the cards. Would a better sub behave OK with the Klipsch and vice versa? I also noticed you recommended a couple of 10 inchers. Is going to 10" subs more suitable for my situation vs. 12s? Pretty sure moar is not better in my case here in terms of driver size. I did see a few comments out there about not going below 12", though. I'll definitely be using two subs though, they just may be mismatched at first. Or would I be better off not hooking up the Klipsch at all and go with whatever single I get at first? Could always try and see how they sound together.
Larger drivers = smoother bass
Smaller ones really no advantage other then cheaper .
Some people like the boomy sound from Klipch close to seating , maybe seee if it adds anything if not sell it .
Apparently port causes spikes in certain frequencies
 

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Discussion Starter #29
One brand I forgot to mention that I was initially looking at was the Hsu CCB-8. These appear to be amazing in regards to sensitivity and headroom with the Denon. The thing that turned me off was the finicky nature of how they need to be placed. I like the idea of coaxial (for bookshelves) for wide even dispersion. They seem to be real beasts wit those 8" woofers and by all accounts, can fill a room better than most other bookshelves and even towers. And the yellow with rosewood does look nice, in my opinion.

Are these really as finicky as people say about placement? Seems like their directions are pretty specific about it too, allowing you to adjust some things by toeing in and out.

Also, do I need to be very concerned about 4 ohm vs. 8 ohm? Seems like the Denon is good down to 6.
 

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I will just add I like my Infinities. 3way towers and center. If in stock and on sale they seem to be a pretty good option.
 

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Also, do I need to be very concerned about 4 ohm vs. 8 ohm? Seems like the Denon is good down to 6.
naw, that's just Emotiva's way of nudging you to buy one of their (reputedly excellent) external amps. Most other speaker companies which DON'T also happen to sell not-cheap external amps would fudge their impedance numbers to at least 6 ohms.

I used the C1 with a 15 year old $230 Panasonic receiver rated only down to 6 ohms and had zero problems...it didn't even get warm.

Here are two other members' experience powering their T1+ with a basic AVR:

T1+ and C2+ powered by Denon S710 to 92db levels:

T2+ and C1+ powered by $400 Onkyo to 85db levels:

B1+ and C2+ powered by Denon x3600 and entry level 75 watt receiver:
 
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I think I understand what you're saying. Is that something that would be EQd out?
The Emotivas were claimed to be "bright" by a rather dubious "audio science" website (ROTFL, anyone in this hobby/industry who loudly pounds their chest that they're oh so "scientific" or "objective" needs to be taken with a truckload of salt) which you can read some interesting things about here:



I despise "bright" speakers, and the Emotivas I've owned were nowhere near that category. It's especially amusing to hear this smear made by people who love JBL Studio speakers to death, when the JBLs have lots more treble energy than they do (although I would not call the JBLs "bright" either).
 
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Discussion Starter #33
Your post made me laugh a little, Zorba. I thought similarly reading through ASR reviews, especially the Revel ones. Regarding that Chane 3 way center....just looked up the dimensions. Going to need to be careful trying to find a stand to fit it in. It's over 10" tall. Considering I need a TV stand along with all of this AV gear (I know I didn't mention it, but didn't think it was relevant until now), not a huge deal for me. Still...may be hard to even find a stand that works.
 

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Your post made me laugh a little, Zorba. I thought similarly reading through ASR reviews, especially the Revel ones. Regarding that Chane 3 way center....just looked up the dimensions. Going to need to be careful trying to find a stand to fit it in. It's over 10" tall. Considering I need a TV stand along with all of this AV gear (I know I didn't mention it, but didn't think it was relevant until now), not a huge deal for me. Still...may be hard to even find a stand that works.
Best thing is to either us a low stand and put your center speaker on top of it with the TV directly on top of the center speaker if your TV has a single center support base not a pair of wide support legs, or low stand with the TV either wall mounted or on a tabletop stand above it.

Ideal option would be to wall mount the TV high enough that you can fit a vertical tower speaker under it, giving you 3 identical vertical fronts which is the acoustic ideal.
3120067
 

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Sheeeit. That looks impressive.

Ok, I think I've narrowed it down to the A6.5s or Emotiva T1+ or 2+.

Emotiva
The T1s are probably a better comparison, especially considering my gripe about size below. IF I go with Emotiva, do I stick with the 2 x 6" woofers or step up to 8". That seems a bit extra, but I know nothing of sensitivity or what listening at reference really means. I'm not looking to be this guy...

3120100


Just want to be on the other side of the basement and not feel like the music is coming from a single side of the room, ya know? Will the T1+'s do that? Just thinking out loud here, and please confirm...does it make more sense to save the $300 by going with the T1+ vs the T2+ and sinking that into the subwoofer cost instead? Better sub(s) and smaller towers > average/entry sub with the bigger towers in this case.

Chane
I am shading a bit more towards Chane due to aesthetics and the slightly smaller footprint (as compared to the T2+). I guess if I go with the T1+ that really doesn't matter much, though. Just the aesthetics, then. My wife, who worked several years selling this stuff retail years ago, know a bit more than I do. She saw the Emotivas and had a puzzled look on her face and said "really?"

The only thing keeping me from being fully decided on Chane is the 3 way Emotiva center. Considering Chane is coming out with theirs soon and I won't be ready to pull the trigger quite yet, makes me lean even more to Chane if their center proves out.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
However, Emotiva does make a smaller tower, the T1+ which is just $700/pr and the T0 which is just $400/pr. The T2+ would be better if you plan on doing a lot of 2 channel music listening at really high volumes with subs off, otherwise I doubt you'd notice any big difference going with one of the smaller towers with subs on and more normal volumes.
Gotta wake up. Sorry, I missed this. I think T1+ is the way for Emotiva, in my case.
 

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Well, if you can do 3 vertical towers up front then you could choose 3 x A5.5 instead of waiting for the A6.5 which could take a long time---they were originally promised in Q4 2020 but I imagine covid probably got in the way, and I doubt covid is getting out of the way anytime soon. The A5.5 do have a slimmer sleeker profile which I imagine would make your wife much happier.


Sheeeit. That looks impressive.

Ok, I think I've narrowed it down to the A6.5s or Emotiva T1+ or 2+.

Emotiva
The T1s are probably a better comparison, especially considering my gripe about size below. IF I go with Emotiva, do I stick with the 2 x 6" woofers or step up to 8". That seems a bit extra, but I know nothing of sensitivity or what listening at reference really means. I'm not looking to be this guy...

Just want to be on the other side of the basement and not feel like the music is coming from a single side of the room, ya know? Will the T1+'s do that? Just thinking out loud here, and please confirm...does it make more sense to save the $300 by going with the T1+ vs the T2+ and sinking that into the subwoofer cost instead? Better sub(s) and smaller towers > average/entry sub with the bigger towers in this case.

Chane
I am shading a bit more towards Chane due to aesthetics and the slightly smaller footprint (as compared to the T2+). I guess if I go with the T1+ that really doesn't matter much, though. Just the aesthetics, then. My wife, who worked several years selling this stuff retail years ago, know a bit more than I do. She saw the Emotivas and had a puzzled look on her face and said "really?"

The only thing keeping me from being fully decided on Chane is the 3 way Emotiva center. Considering Chane is coming out with theirs soon and I won't be ready to pull the trigger quite yet, makes me lean even more to Chane if their center proves out.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
May be tougher to do that than to get a low cabinet to account for the slightly lower ceiling. The TV is on the wall and I could raise it up a bit higher but not much.

In any case I have time. I'm trying to get this all planned out and budgeted. Maybe I'll catch a sale here or there on the components I select. Hopefully the Chane center comes in as expected this quarter and the timing is right for me to pull the trigger on speakers sometime after that.

Thanks for all the great input everyone. I'll be back with additional questions as I have them.
 

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I don't know much, since I am in the same shoes as you with researching and shopping, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

The t2+ is crossed over from woofer to midrange at 350hz.

The t1+ is crossed over from woofer to midrange at 275hz.

So even with a sub crossed at 80hz, you still have frequencies handled by the woofer.

So you have 80-350hz being handled by 8 inch woofers for the t2+ vs 80-275hz being handled by 6 inch woofers for the t1+.

How much will that make a difference, I don't know.

Another thing to think about with the c2+ is that thing is monstrous. It is 36lbs. A t1+ is 40lbs. It's pretty wide and deep. It has two rear ports and emotiva says there should be 6 inch clearance in the rear. Emotiva says that the c1+ is basically a sideways t1+.
 

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Hey,

I have tried the Emotiva T2+ , Goldenear Triton 1R , Klipsch RP-8000 and not getting that movie experience I want.
So going now with either JTR speakers or Krix MX-30. Anyone has recommendation for them ?
7.2.6 with Anthem AVM70

Thank you
 
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