[xlr231]

After going to a movie at a local DLP cinema last week I decided my screen needs an upgrade. My current screen is painted with Black Widow and is only 40"x72". My plan is to do an "almost" CIH screen using the zoom method. My projector is a HC1500 so it doesn't have the zoom range to do CIH so I am going to make a 42"x90" screen. For normal viewing my projector's zoom will be set to the smallest size and the screen will be 42"x75" but for scope movies I will zoom all the way out for a 38"x90" viewing area.


I am trying to decide what I should use for paint. I may stick with Black Widow, overall I have been happy with it, but am worried that increasing the screen size that much it won't be bright enough.

I was thinking about going with S-I-L-V-E-R to get some extra image pop. Since I am moving my projector back a few feet and the image will be bigger hopefully my black level won't be worse.


Are there any other paint formulas that I should consider?


Thanks

 

[josephandrews222]

I have the same question. I have spent hours on this forum and would like there to be a digest-form set of links for those ready to take the plunge with DIY paint screens.

 

[Harpmaker]

Hi xlr231,


With those screen sizes you have more than enough fL. to continue using BW if you choose to. I'm getting about 32 fL. for the 16:9 screen and about 25 fL. for the 2.4:1.


BW is a very good ambient light screen, S-I-L-V-E-R by most reports isn't.


If you want a lighter screen, give some thought to using Scorpion; it is from the designers of BW and shares many of the same attributes.

 

[MississippiMan]



Quote:
Originally Posted by xlr231 /forum/post/16863473


After going to a movie at a local DLP cinema last week I decided my screen needs an upgrade. My current screen is painted with Black Widow and is only 40"x72". ........... My projector is a HC1500 ........... For normal viewing my projector's zoom will be set to the smallest size and the screen will be 42"x75" but for scope movies I will zoom all the way out for a 38"x90" viewing area.


I am trying to decide what I should use for paint. I may stick with Black Widow, overall I have been happy with it, but am worried that increasing the screen size that much it won't be bright enough.

I was thinking about going with S-I-L-V-E-R to get some extra image pop. Since I am moving my projector back a few feet and the image will be bigger hopefully my black level won't be worse.


Are there any other paint formulas that I should consider?


Thanks

Hey der xlr231,


You post seems to indicate a few things;

• Although happy with your current screen, you can see some limitations
• Ambient Light is not the overriding concern
• You've done some reading that has led you toward something that should offer you better "PoP"

Well let be state a few constants;


S-I-L-V-E-R does NOT offer you anything but the most absolute BEST level of contrast between Blacks and Whites/Colors when used under the right circumstances.


If there IS any ambient light (non directed) and it's kept to a reasonably low level, the qualities of S-I-L-V-E-R will not be reduced to any lessor degree than what you currently are using under identical circumstances, because with the HC1500, it's lumens can easily drive past those circumstances. No matter what else, your whites would be better anyway.


If combating any real ambient light is a desired attribute, then having a screen where Gain + "considerable" Contrast Enhancing ability is present is what you want....not any application that robs from one aspect to assist the other. Under that criteria, Silver Fire would head the list.


Certain "self imposed" limitations will come into play, such as the desire to effect the new screen in the easiest, least expensive manner. Since you were looking toward S-I-L-V-E-R, I'll gather that spraying on your intended surface isn't an issue. (...watcha got to spray with?)


Easy to some might mean how much trouble (....or the lack thereof...) it would be to assemble and mix paint components. You already are familiar with BW's attributes in that regard. And the other "lighter" members of the Insect genre generally follow suit, but brook no mistake, if they go lighter, you black levels WILL also be reduced, as well as any ambient light watching abilities.


To be perfectly honest, you are not expanding your screen size out to proportions that should/would effect too much if any of a worsening of the acceptable performance levels you seeing at present with your current screen. in that regard, many would say, "If it ain't broke...don't fix it." But honesty also dictates saying that if your considering a change, better choices do exist. Where the line has to be drawn as far as what you want to do...and get for your efforts, is up to you.

 

[xlr231]

I decided to just go with a fixed aspect 48"x86" screen instead of zooming the projector. I moved my projector mount and am temporarily projecting onto a white wall. Even with 2300 hrs on the lamp (and it set to low) it is still plenty bright for the bigger size. I think SILVER would probably be too bright for this projector and screen size.


I want to go with a screen with a gain of closer to 1.0 so I get a little more pop out of the image. I was thinking of either SilverFire or a lighter shade of Black Widow. Is SilverFire color neutral? I have read some posts with people saying it has a color push. Is that right or did they just mix it wrong? Also how is the viewing cone? I have one seat at about 45 degrees.

 

[MississippiMan]

Be advised there is no "lighter shade" of Black Widow, only BW diluted with additional Flat White Enamel. And you cannot dilute it too much or you lose everything BW is all about.


Silver Fire as formulated and correctly measured/mixed is a Neutral Gray. The few instances where any push toward Blue or Green were easily compensated for and corrected by the addition of extremely small amounts of the extra Red or Green Primary Tints left over from the mixing process.


Silver Fire's gain in the N7.5 / N8.0 range is approx 1.2, significantly higher than any other such Gray shaded DIY Screen application, so it's "all good' in that respect.


Lastly, I'm sure you mistyped your screen size.

 

[Harpmaker]

OK, I'll try this again; for some unexplained reason my last post in this thread was deleted.

If your PJ image was too bright on a plain white wall, S-I-L-V-E-R would be even brighter on-axis.


The old Silver Fire formula pushed blue-green, and it was not from mixing error; the new formula has not been objectively tested yet.


As for Silver Fire's gain the only sample tested so far lost more than half of it's on-axis brightness (gain) at 45 degrees. This is the equivalent of over one full camera f-stop.


As for a lighter shade of BW itself, the lightest recommended mix is the standard 4:1 Bermuda Beige/AAA-F with an additional part of white paint added so the ratio would be expressed as 4:1:1 with the last "1" being the extra part of Valspar or Behr white paint. I think this mix is around the N8 level.


There are newer, lighter mixes from the designers of BW and the current development team at their forum, but I'm not sure now if I can talk about them here at AVS any more since there is no dedicated thread on them here.

 

[wbassett]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/16929956


Be advised there is no "lighter shade" of Black Widow, only BW diluted with additional Flat White Enamel. And you cannot dilute it too much or you lose everything BW is all about.

Just clearing things up is all... this is both true and not true... let me explain...


Black Widow is an N7.5 shade gray screen that performs like an N8-N8.2 in shade. It is true there technically isn't a lighter shade of 'Black Widow', but there are the two Scorpion mixes that are N8 and N8.5 in shade. I guess we could have called them BW2 and BW3 but we wanted people to know these are different shades and not a change to the original Black Widow mix.


I agree that by diluting BW with additional flat white enamel will change the mix concentrations, but more importantly is it will also change the color balance. Some people aren't concerned about that, but we actually did put a lot of effort into designing this to be a true D65 neutral and we like to keep it neutral. That way we know that the 1000th person that makes BW or one of the lighter shade screens will have the exact same screen as the first person that we recommended it to... or the millionth... they all will be the same and perform the same.


As far as your question, I concur. If your screen dimensions listed are correct, you will be fine even with a larger screen.

 

[prof55]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker /forum/post/16930934


OK, I'll try this again; for some unexplained reason my last post in this thread was deleted.

If your PJ image was too bright on a plain white wall, S-I-L-V-E-R would be even brighter on-axis.


The old Silver Fire formula pushed blue-green, and it was not from mixing error; the new formula has not been objectively tested yet.


As for Silver Fire's gain the only sample tested so far lost more than half of it's on-axis brightness (gain) at 45 degrees. This is the equivalent of over one full camera f-stop.


As for a lighter shade of BW itself, the lightest recommended mix is the standard 4:1 Bermuda Beige/AAA-F with an additional part of white paint added so the ratio would be expressed as 4:1:1 with the last "1" being the extra part of Valspar or Behr white paint. I think this mix is around the N8 level.


There are newer, lighter mixes from the designers of BW and the current development team at their forum, but I'm not sure now if I can talk about them here at AVS any more since there is no dedicated thread on them here.

Harpmaker: Presumably you posted this before reading my PM. In it, I suggest that if you are going to recommend these mixes to members, it would be best to author a thread that describes them and provides formulas. The same suggestion applies to any tests you have done of other mixes; if you're going to refer to them, please post them.


Thank you,

Garry

AVS Moderator

 

[MississippiMan]

............maybe a bit improbable though.


Maybe not. I'd work with any/all of them if the effort at true cooperation could reach the level it did temporarily back when I did my last comparison tests of BW/SF/NG/SS/White.


Well...it won't not happen because I'm unwilling.


We'll just have to see.