[vikgrao]

HI all,

I am looking to purchase a UPS with battery backup for my Epson 6020 Projector. Wondering what most of you are using to protect your projectors especially expensive ones like the Sony VW1000ES etc, and if a UPS with true sine wave output is important for the Projector. I am currently looking at the APC and cyberpower brands but not sure which one to go with. Can you please offer suggestions regarding the most popular and reliable brands/models to do the job.

Thanks

Vik

 

[Glimmie]

You don't need a pure sinewave UPS for a projector or any device that uses a switching power supply. The only HT components that would benefit from a sine wave UPS are high quality audio products like DACS that have linear power supplies.


Really low cost UPS units actually put out a 170v square wave but as a switching power supply can typically run anywhere from 87 to 264 volts, it doesn't care. Also as switch mode power supplies basically just rectify the direct AC line to DC, waveform distortion doesn't matter either.


No need for expensive "online" UPS units either. The power supply in the projector typically has enough ride through to handle the switch over. Most mid priced UPS units have good surge protection and filtering built in.


Both APC and Cyberpower are great for what you need.


Me? Well I use a high end Liebert online 3KVA pure sinewave unit.

Costs over $3K new. But I got it free as it needed new battereis, a $120 investment. Now here's the downside. It pulls 60 watts just to run with no load attached. That's just wasted power I have to pay for 24/7. In a pro environment who cares, but in a home... So that's another thing to consider with higher end pro UPS units.

 

[vikgrao]

Thanks Glimmie! for the clarification. Before i posted this i did check out your HT page behind the scenes pics and description from a different post, Very impressive!!

 

[Nyal Mellor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_23164501


You don't need a pure sinewave UPS for a projector or any device that uses a switching power supply. The only HT components that would benefit from a sine wave UPS are high quality audio products like DACS that have linear power supplies.


Really low cost UPS units actually put out a 170v square wave but as a switching power supply can typically run anywhere from 87 to 264 volts, it doesn't care. Also as switch mode power supplies basically just rectify the direct AC line to DC, waveform distortion doesn't matter either.


No need for expensive "online" UPS units either. The power supply in the projector typically has enough ride through to handle the switch over.

+1, a standby UPS is fine for this application


HOWEVER, make sure you plug your UPS into the surge protector you are using for your audio gear, not the wall. If you are using two surge protectors (or devices containing surge protectors) plugged individually into the wall (therefore having different ground impedances) there is a small risk that a surge voltage will travel over the interconnect between the two pieces of equipment.

 

[vikgrao]

Thanks for the tip Nyal Mellor , other than APC or cyber-power, panamax also looks like it has some good offerings. Just wondering since its only the projector i need the UPS and battery backup for, What model to buy and how much should i spend. I am planning to keep it under $1000 though.

 

[Nyal Mellor]

The main thing is to look at your projector specs and see how much power it draws. Then find a standby UPS that can support that power draw and has sufficient run time figures to allow the bulb to cool off.


If you are being fancy pants about it then you can find a UPS with a trigger (via RS232 typically) or outlet that is cutoff in the event of an outage and hook that into your control system to shut down the projector when the power drops.


Finally you might consider form factor, UPSs come in all shapes and sizes from small box to big rack mount.


Personally I like the SurgeX stuff. Their 'Power Pro' line might be suitable and is rebadged from their parent company ESPEI but the build quality is much better than a lot of other companies out there.

 

[vikgrao]

Great! thanks for reminding i totally forgot about surgeX, I will look at their models also.

 

[Dennis Erskine]

For our installations (budget constraints can inhibit this approach), we install a 240V30 amp step down transformer. Between the power line and the transformer we install a 6kVA UPS (your load my dictate different) with a 15 minute runtime for the entire system. When the UPS detects a power failure, it signals the control system which then starts a five minute timer. If the power is not restored in five minutes, the control system executes an orderly system shut down. After the shut down, the UPS will have sufficient remaining power to maintain fan(s) operation for upwards of 30 minutes. When using a 4K DCI based projection system, we need two 240V sources and two (each slightly less than 6kVA) UPS units (a second step down transformer is not required in this case). The step down transformers are sourced from ExactPower and the UPS systems from TrippLite. [A Piller Motor Generator would be nice...

]


For what it is worth.

 

[Tnedator]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_23165104


+1, a standby UPS is fine for this application


HOWEVER, make sure you plug your UPS into the surge protector you are using for your audio gear, not the wall. If you are using two surge protectors (or devices containing surge protectors) plugged individually into the wall (therefore having different ground impedances) there is a small risk that a surge voltage will travel over the interconnect between the two pieces of equipment.

Nyal,


This may vary by UPS, and I am most familiar with models designed for PC's/Servers, but I have read quite a few manuals/spec sheets that have said that they should not be plugged into surge protectors. Does this vary by brand/model of UPS, or does it have something to do with the type of surge protector they are plugged into?

 

[Nyal Mellor]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_23167245


Nyal,


This may vary by UPS, and I am most familiar with models designed for PC's/Servers, but I have read quite a few manuals/spec sheets that have said that they should not be plugged into surge protectors. Does this vary by brand/model of UPS, or does it have something to do with the type of surge protector they are plugged into?

Never heard of that...I would guess though that is because the UPSs already include surge protection?

 

[Glimmie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_23167245


Nyal,


This may vary by UPS, and I am most familiar with models designed for PC's/Servers, but I have read quite a few manuals/spec sheets that have said that they should not be plugged into surge protectors. Does this vary by brand/model of UPS, or does it have something to do with the type of surge protector they are plugged into?

I think they are worried about current limiting via a surge protector. Not that surge protectors necessarily limit current but say someone plugs a 2kva UPS into a 10 amp surge protected power strip. That would not be good. But if your surge protector is rated at or above the UPS capacity, it should be no problem. In fact as a UPS is basically just a switching power supply and has power semiconductors directly attached to the AC line, a surge protector in front of a UPS is extra protection which can't hurt in that respect.


And let's not forget that plugging a UPS into a typical low cost power strip is yet one more connection point at high currents that can overheat and fail.


Remember that many of these UPS user manuals are written for IT managers that may not have deep electrical knowledge.

 

[Glimmie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_23167222


For our installations (budget constraints can inhibit this approach), we install a 240V30 amp step down transformer. Between the power line and the transformer we install a 6kVA UPS (your load my dictate different) with a 15 minute runtime for the entire system. When the UPS detects a power failure, it signals the control system which then starts a five minute timer. If the power is not restored in five minutes, the control system executes an orderly system shut down. After the shut down, the UPS will have sufficient remaining power to maintain fan(s) operation for upwards of 30 minutes. When using a 4K DCI based projection system, we need two 240V sources and two (each slightly less than 6kVA) UPS units (a second step down transformer is not required in this case). The step down transformers are sourced from ExactPower and the UPS systems from TrippLite. [A Piller Motor Generator would be nice...

]


For what it is worth.

Yes that's a high end setup but the way to go if one can afford it. A balanced power system is the next option by choosing a balanced transformer or rack mount unit, aka Equitech. And even though I am/was a bit proponent of balanced power, I find that the benefits are minimal in today's mostly all digital AV systems. Commercially you really only find balanced power in smaller recording studios. In TV and film facilities, balanced power is practically non-existant.


But the isolation transformer, balanced or not, is still IMO, the single best protection you can have.

 

[Tnedator]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_23167756


Never heard of that...I would guess though that is because the UPSs already include surge protection?

That's been my understanding.


I just went and checked the manual for the Cyberpower 1500avrlcd, which I use at home for computers, NAS and electronics (4 of them). It says:


"Plug the UPS into a 2 pole, 3 wire grounding receptacle (wall outlet). Make sure the wall branch outlet is protected by a fuse or circuit

breaker and does not service equipment with large electrical demands (e.g. refrigerator, copier, etc…). The warranty prohibits the use of

extension cords, outlet strips, and surge strips."


I'm not sure the technical reason for it, just something that in my IT scope has been a rule of thumb for nearly as long as we've been using UPS's.

 

[DavidHir]

I was looking at this for my JVC RS-4810. The projector would be the only unit plugged into it. Thoughts? The JVC is 360 watts and I always heard you want to have leeway from the max (600 watts for the CyberPower)


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N18S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[jjcook]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_24383000


I was looking at this for my JVC RS-4810. The projector would be the only unit plugged into it. Thoughts? The JVC is 360 watts and I always heard you want to have leeway from the max (600 watts for the CyberPower)


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N18S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

After looking around for a while, I ended up going with the same choice as you but the 1350VA model (which is being delivered today) to power my JVC RS4910. Ended up going for the higher VA model just to give myself margin to add small extra load in the future (bluray player, etc.).

 

[DavidHir]

I ended up going with the 1000VA model just for a little extra battery time, but my RS4810 will be the only thing connected to it.

 

[obonillaf]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie  /t/1466729/ups-with-sine-wave-output-for-projectors#post_23164501


You don't need a pure sinewave UPS for a projector or any device that uses a switching power supply. The only HT components that would benefit from a sine wave UPS are high quality audio products like DACS that have linear power supplies.


Really low cost UPS units actually put out a 170v square wave but as a switching power supply can typically run anywhere from 87 to 264 volts, it doesn't care. Also as switch mode power supplies basically just rectify the direct AC line to DC, waveform distortion doesn't matter either.


No need for expensive "online" UPS units either. The power supply in the projector typically has enough ride through to handle the switch over. Most mid priced UPS units have good surge protection and filtering built in.


Both APC and Cyberpower are great for what you need.


Me? Well I use a high end Liebert online 3KVA pure sinewave unit.

Costs over $3K new. But I got it free as it needed new battereis, a $120 investment. Now here's the downside. It pulls 60 watts just to run with no load attached. That's just wasted power I have to pay for 24/7. In a pro environment who cares, but in a home... So that's another thing to consider with higher end pro UPS units.

Glimmie, as I know you have a lot of knowledge in this matters, could I know your opinion about this UPS I am planning to buy to use with my Epson 5030 projector? It's got AVR and power conditioning (as they call it) but the only thing that give me doubt is why Surge energy rating is "only" rated a 345 joules.


Any other recommendations for a UPS for my projector? Thank you a lot.

 

[BassThatHz]






Gear load: HTPC + DAC + Preamp + Projector



Incoming wall socket AC:




One leg of Incoming wall socket AC:




The Fluke is displaying the waveform correctly.

Normal wall-socket AC power has 2% to 5% distortion in it.


CyberPower 2200VA Puresinewave UPS on battery-power (note: non-active type):



Not to shabby for running off of battery-power.

This feeds my PPP if / when the power goes out or gets nasty, which it never has THUS FAR.


PS Audio PPP power conditioned socket (AC-DC-AC power regenerator):




I am glad all my sensitive electronics are protected by the CyberPower 2200 and PS Audio PPP combo, it gives me some peace of mind knowing that there is at least some sort of decent protection in place.

Gives me about 20 to 40minutes of run-time which is more than overkill, I only need maybe 5min.

 

[fbrighi]

You don't need a pure sinewave UPS for a projector or any device that uses a switching power supply. The only HT components that would benefit from a sine wave UPS are high quality audio products like DACS that have linear power supplies.

Hello, i have same question for a JVC N7. I have my old UPS from APC (BR1200LCDI) which worked very good until now with an old JVC Rs 400, but it supplies not sinewave but square wave approximation. Is it still safe to be used with a JVC N7? Or new projectors have same issue as PFC equipping new PC power unit?

Thanks for any kind of help,

FKB