AVS Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a fixed resolution display of 1366 by 768p. My upscaling dvd player has an output of 720p or 1080i. Which resolution will give me the best picture?

Should I let the display upscale or downscale to 768p?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZ 1 /forum/post/0


I have a fixed resolution display of 1366 by 768p. My upscaling dvd player has an output of 720p or 1080i. Which resolution will give me the best picture?

Should I let the display upscale or downscale to 768p?

If you want to have your player process the signal, I can't tell you which will yield better PQ. I will read other's comments with interest.


I will say that depending on your display, you might be better to not have your player process the signal at all. For instance, NEC displays have extremely fine video processing functions and so NEC folks prefer to send 480i from a player and let NEC do all the processing rather than accept a signal that has already been compromized.


Also in your question it's more than a matter of up vs down. In the case of 720p, the signal has already been de-interlaced by the player as well as scaled once. In this instance, the display will rescale the image. Scaling twice is not always nice. You could have chosen instead to send a 480p signal so scaling would be done just once. De-interlacing in the player, however, is good if and only if the player perform de-interlacing better than your display. You should try both and see.


You get the idea. Consider carefully each processing function and where it is best performed given the components in your video chain. Minimize redundant processing and digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversions where possible.


Sorry to make it complicated but it is really not a simple question with a simple answer.


Cheers,



Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the advice.

I guess the next question I would have is -- If I have a 768p display and a true hd signal from a satalite, I still don't know what I would use. 720p or 1080i.

I think this is a big problem for many, but I heard downscaling is worse. In my opinion, I would go with 720p just so that I don't have to deinterlace the signal again. But I don't know for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZ 1 /forum/post/0


Thank you for the advice.

I guess the next question I would have is -- If I have a 768p display and a true hd signal from a satalite, I still don't know what I would use. 720p or 1080i.

I think this is a big problem for many, but I heard downscaling is worse. In my opinion, I would go with 720p just so that I don't have to deinterlace the signal again. But I don't know for sure.

This is a good but rather different question than the one dealing with DVDs. However, the same principals apply in the answer. Broadcasts vary as to their resolution (DVDs do not), some broadcasts are in 720p and others are in 1080i. While you can configure your STB to convert the signals, you are normally better off to have it just pass the signal through to the display in whatever form it originates and let the display deal with it just once. Most STBs allow this option.


This way you avoid double scaling. Also, processing in most STBs stinks. They are the cheap of the cheap.


Cheers,



Gary


Edit: OOPS the 1080p should have been 1080i for broadcasts. Sorry for the typo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts
Good answers Gary, I agree completely with both.


To the OP,

You might want to check out this post #1884
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=63&pp=30


I've found the same thing with 3 of my own dvd players with the Pioneer. 480i output results in the best picture. Of course Pioneer folks, much like NEC folks find that the display processor is better than most DVD or STB processors. YMMV depending on what display you have. What is true for Pioneer/NEC may not be true for LG or Vizio (I don't know if that is the case, just using them as examples).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the input guys!


My stb does not decipher what type of signal is coming in, only what I choose to output. I don't have a native mode on my stb. If I want hd, I have to choose the output of 720p or 1080i for all hd signals coming in. Which ever I choose will cause the display to convert to 768p. If I choose 720p, the display will upscale. If I choose 1080i, the display will have to downscale and deinterlace the signal.


Which should I choose for best pic.


Thanks in advance for your time.


Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZ 1 /forum/post/0


Thanks for the input guys!


My stb does not decipher what type of signal is coming in, only what I choose to output. I don't have a native mode on my stb. If I want hd, I have to choose the output of 720p or 1080i for all hd signals coming in. Which ever I choose will cause the display to convert to 768p. If I choose 720p, the display will upscale. If I choose 1080i, the display will have to downscale and deinterlace the signal.


Which should I choose for best pic.


Thanks in advance for your time.


Brian

My guess (and it would be just that a guess) would be to avoid de-interlacing if possible in the STB because of their cheap processing.


However, the practical way to settle the issue is to try both and compare.


It's a shame that your STB does not have a native mode. Does your cable company offer any alternatives? They may have a different model that offers this feature.


How about going to satellite?


Cheers,



Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not /forum/post/0


Good answers Gary, I agree completely with both.


To the OP,

You might want to check out this post #1884
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=63&pp=30


I've found the same thing with 3 of my own dvd players with the Pioneer. 480i output results in the best picture. Of course Pioneer folks, much like NEC folks find that the display processor is better than most DVD or STB processors. YMMV depending on what display you have. What is true for Pioneer/NEC may not be true for LG or Vizio (I don't know if that is the case, just using them as examples).

Hey out of curiosity over what type of connection do you send the 480i signal? 480i is not within the HDMI standard because it is below the minimum bit rate but some players will double up on the frames and allow it this way. I believe a flag is set or something so the receiving device can discard every other frame. That way the signal can remain digital avoiding extra conversions. I was just wondering how your system is set up.


Cheers,



Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not /forum/post/0


Good answers Gary, I agree completely with both.


To the OP,

You might want to check out this post #1884
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=63&pp=30


I've found the same thing with 3 of my own dvd players with the Pioneer. 480i output results in the best picture. Of course Pioneer folks, much like NEC folks find that the display processor is better than most DVD or STB processors. YMMV depending on what display you have. What is true for Pioneer/NEC may not be true for LG or Vizio (I don't know if that is the case, just using them as examples).

Thanks for the link. I read through the thread with great interest. It well illustrates my point.


However, the landscape is about to radically change as players acquire new high performance processing chips such as the Silicon Optics Reon chip. Toshiba has an HD DVD player out now and Samsung has announced a BD player. These chips are far better than procesors in any current displays. Early reports are fantastic.


Cheers,



Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by itigap /forum/post/0


Thanks for the link. I read through the thread with great interest. It well illustrates my point.


However, the landscape is about to radically change as players acquire new high performance processing chips such as the Silicon Optics Reon chip. Toshiba has an HD DVD player out now and Samsung has announced a BD player. These chips are far better than procesors in any current displays. Early reports are fantastic.


Cheers,



Gary

Well, I would have thought that "HD" players would have superior chips. Do you expect any to make it down into upconverting players? I'm getting impatient with this format war after viewing some of the pics on this website & might just have to pick a side...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZ 1 /forum/post/0


you think component will give a better 480i picture?

Sorry, that was to itigap.


I suggest you try both. I actually found my best SD picture from my STB with S-video. I use component to pass from my DVD player @ 480i. I tried 480i from my dvd player with S-video and composite and found a loss of PQ vs component.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not /forum/post/0


Well, I would have thought that "HD" players would have superior chips. Do you expect any to make it down into upconverting players? I'm getting impatient with this format war after viewing some of the pics on this website & might just have to pick a side...

I am not talking here about the "average" HD player's processing chips, although they are quite good, but rather those select players that have chosen to employ the new "super" chips from SI, the Reon family if chips.


I would hope to see some non-HD players employ these chips as the chips do a most fantastic job with SD disks. The Reon is also capable of outputting at 1080p.


They employ four-frame per-pixel motion-adaptave de-interlacing using Terenax algorithms. There scaling is excellent. They also employ several types of effective noise reduction without softening the picture so you finally don't have to turn these functions off and loose their value.


BTW the chips are $15 in quantity to manufacturers.


Here is hoping they trickle down hill. Maybe a future OPPO unit?


Cheers,



Gary


I don't know how to include a link here but there is a discussion in the HD players forum regarding the Toshiba XA2 player. Samsung announced a BD player at CES that will use the chip.


Unfortunately, I did not hear receiver manufactures announcing flagship receivers using this chip or more likely its big brother the Realta chip. I was expecting to hear this but the only mention was Denon in a separate AV processor. Guess it might take longer to come to market in receivers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZZ 1 /forum/post/0


yes, I have DVI

RAZZ, I think you said earlier that you transported your 480i signal over HDMI so you are OK there.


I was asking why2not if he could do the same rather than use an analog connection for the 480i signal. The analog connection results in a digital to analog and subsequent analog to digital conversion. These never help the situation if they can be avoided.


Of course, component can cary a digital YCbCr signal. I don't know if his player and display support this format.


Cheers,



Gary
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top