AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 91 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

Need some help, I'm looking for a tactile transducer or bass shaker for my sofas in my home cinema living room, below i have described my cinema layout:

I have a projector and also a onkyo 5.1 audio receiver with 5 B&W speakers and a huge subwoofer.

My room includes two sofas, one 3 seater and the other is a 2 seater.

I am looking for the best tactile transducer system to add to my home cinema system.

I would highly prefer a wireless system cause it would be much easier to install and hide.

Please could you recommend me a system to purchase, I'm based in London, UK. So it needs to be deliverable to here!

Im not sure how many sofas the system would connect to and if two would be ok, but if it isn't then i definitely need the one, 3 seater sofa to work with this. The second two seater sofa would be an added bonus.

The sofas i have are on 4 legs with a gap underneath between the sofa and the floor.

Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Come on guys, no one?

I have had a look and am thinking to stick to a wired system now.

The two i have come down to are the Buttkicker LTE and the Clark Synthesis TST239. I need 2 in my larger sofa and 1 in my smaller sofa. So 3 in total.

Now the question is which one shall i get?

Please can someone advice on this and tell me which one would be better option, I'm going to be using mainly for movies and games.

I also need to decide on a amplifier.

Any recommendations?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
I bought 4 aura bass shakers for 42$ each and a dayton 250 amp for 125.00 all through parts express and my family and cant be more happy. There are many options some costing alot more but i did my research n people were happy with that set so i went that route.

Peeps here can help u with wiring diagrams
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I bought 4 aura bass shakers for 42$ each and a dayton 250 amp for 125.00 all through parts express and my family and cant be more happy. There are many options some costing alot more but i did my research n people were happy with that set so i went that route.

Peeps here can help u with wiring diagrams
Thanks for your reply. Nice, good to see your enjoying it.

Unfortunately, the Aura are impossible to get hold of in UK and even if you manage to find someone selling they are priced around £80-100 each, not really worth it when you can purchase much better ones in ButtKicker LFE / Clark Synthesis TST239.

I don't really need to worry about the wiring, as i have a home cinema expert installing it for me. At the moment i just need to decide which one i want to go for out of these two i mentioned.

The ButtKickers are slightly cheaper at £1000 for the installation of 3 of them, while the Clarks are slightly more expensive at £1300, but that is also because of the very costly Amplifier: Paradigm X300 (which itself is around £500-600).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Please guys can someone recommend one over the other, i urgently need to know as the home cinema installer is due to come in within the next week or so to install and bring the equipment.

Hence, i urgently need to tell him to either go with the clarks or buttcrakers!!

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,425 Posts
Crowsons are such a step up from those 2 IMO. The buttkickers, clarks, and auras all seem fake and gimmiky to me. For a long time those were the only kind of transducer I had experienced so I thought I didn't like transducers. Then an avs member (craig john) recommended Crowson to me. They are more expensive but are so realistic!! I bought one and it's one of the best upgrades I have made in my room.

The coolest thing about it is that it moves my couch exactly like the low frequencies do on my subs (I'm a bit crazy, I have 8 18" subs) but even with more authority (especially below 15hz) since I am on a concrete floor.

http://www.crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3450/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx


I bought the Shadow 8 single for $500 and am powering it with a Behringer Inuke 3000 dsp. It's awesome.

Here is the avs thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...-crowson-tactile-motion-actuators-thread.html


Good luck man! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Crowsons are such a step up from those 2 IMO. The buttkickers, clarks, and auras all seem fake and gimmiky to me. For a long time those were the only kind of transducer I had experienced so I thought I didn't like transducers. Then an avs member (craig john) recommended Crowson to me. They are more expensive but are so realistic!! I bought one and it's one of the best upgrades I have made in my room.

The coolest thing about it is that it moves my couch exactly like the low frequencies do on my subs (I'm a bit crazy, I have 8 18" subs) but even with more authority (especially below 15hz) since I am on a concrete floor.

http://www.crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3450/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx


I bought the Shadow 8 single for $500 and am powering it with a Behringer Inuke 3000 dsp. It's awesome.

Here is the avs thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...-crowson-tactile-motion-actuators-thread.html


Good luck man! :)
Thank you for your response, the problem is that these are going to be impossible to get hold of in UK! I was initially after motion transducers, as i prefer my seat moving rather then a static vibrate! Im assuming that these Crowsons move the whole sofa and also make it shake like the Buttcrakers do? or does it not vibrate and only do motion?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK guys i managed to find one distributor here in london selling the crowsons, but as i thought they are ridiculously overpriced here.

I've emailed almost all home cinema distributors that i could find in my area, so far i have only found one distributor selling these and they are £600 for the crowns stereo amp and another £600 for a pair of transducers the sit beneath your sofa feet. Which means £1200 for just one sofa!!! I would need another pair for the other sofa taking it to £1800. Which is almost double for what i earlier wanted to spend.

Can someone that knows please tell me that if i go for the crowsons over the clarks, what is the major advantage that it will give me? How do they differ? I know that these will provide a stereo vibration as they get input from the from left and right speaker channels also, but i think this can also be added to the clarks? Apart from this function is there a feature of the crowsons that make it much better then the clarks and worth the high price?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,425 Posts
OK guys i managed to find one distributor here in london selling the crowsons, but as i thought they are ridiculously overpriced here.

I've emailed almost all home cinema distributors that i could find in my area, so far i have only found one distributor selling these and they are £600 for the crowns stereo amp and another £600 for a pair of transducers the sit beneath your sofa feet. Which means £1200 for just one sofa!!! I would need another pair for the other sofa taking it to £1800. Which is almost double for what i earlier wanted to spend.

Can someone that knows please tell me that if i go for the crowsons over the clarks, what is the major advantage that it will give me? How do they differ? I know that these will provide a stereo vibration as they get input from the from left and right speaker channels also, but i think this can also be added to the clarks? Apart from this function is there a feature of the crowsons that make it much better then the clarks and worth the high price?

I don't know how much it would cost you to get an Inuke 3000 dsp but they are pretty cheap over here. One inuke 3000 dsp is perfect to power 2 of the Shadow 8 transducers.

Also, you can tweak the distance settings, low pass filter settings (I don't use a low pass for music but for movies I like a 40hz low pass filter - you can tweak the settings to see what you like). Just connect the inuke to a computer or laptop with a usb cord.

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-NU3000-Ultra-Lightweight-High-Density-3000-Watt/dp/B005DUR7U8

The inuke 3000 has been tested to put out around 350-400 watts per channel in 8 ohms which is perfect for the Crowson.

Now, the inuke fan is noisy so I have my amp in the next room. Some guys do a fan modification (put in a different fan) to make them quiet. You could find threads about what fans to use and how to do it on avs.

The other brands you are looking at can be fun but in the end if you want a realistic experience where you will forget you are even using transducers the Crowsons are the way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't know how much it would cost you to get an Inuke 3000 dsp but they are pretty cheap over here. One inuke 3000 dsp is perfect to power 2 of the Shadow 8 transducers.

Also, you can tweak the distance settings, low pass filter settings (I don't use a low pass for music but for movies I like a 40hz low pass filter - you can tweak the settings to see what you like). Just connect the inuke to a computer or laptop with a usb cord.

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-NU3000-Ultra-Lightweight-High-Density-3000-Watt/dp/B005DUR7U8

The inuke 3000 has been tested to put out around 350-400 watts per channel in 8 ohms which is perfect for the Crowson.

Now, the inuke fan is noisy so I have my amp in the next room. Some guys do a fan modification (put in a different fan) to make them quiet. You could find threads about what fans to use and how to do it on avs.

The other brands you are looking at can be fun but in the end if you want a realistic experience where you will forget you are even using transducers the Crowsons are the way to go.
That amp can be had for a reasonable price here on UK amazon. However, it won't be adequate as i need 4 transducers, 2 for each sofa! Hence i would need an amp that can work with 4 transducers, also i really need a quite amp - it can't be noisy.

Anyhow, all that can be looked at afterwards. What i first need to understand is how the Crowson works! As i just can't seem to understand, i know it sits on the back footing of the sofas, and moves the sofa around, up, down, diagonal etc.. But as its only on 2 feet how good is this? In my view you won't get a full sense of motion!

Also what i don't understand is how it would function in a film, for example say I'm watching Godzilla. He Roars, producing huge vibrations on the normal Clarks/ButtKickers, but how would this translate to a stereo Crowson that is only doing motion?

Please if you could describe exactly how it works?!

Thanks for your help
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,502 Posts
Thank you for your response, the problem is that these are going to be impossible to get hold of in UK! I was initially after motion transducers, as i prefer my seat moving rather then a static vibrate! Im assuming that these Crowsons move the whole sofa and also make it shake like the Buttcrakers do? or does it not vibrate and only do motion?
"Motion transducers" vs. vibration??? If, by "motion transducers" you mean something like D-Box, then NO!.., none of the "tactile" transducers will provide that kind of "motion." Only D-Box will provide actual movement of the seat in an up/down, left/right, front/back, Disney-ride kind of motion. D-Box will physically move the seat(s) by 4 to 6 INCHES in multiple 3D horizontal/vertical planes. It's VERY expensive, costing several thousands of dollars per chair. It uses a specific D-Box "Motion Code" track available on some, but not all, BluRay discs. Nothing else besides D-Box can use that track, as it is proprietary.

(Having said that, IN MY EXPERIENCE, the "Disney-Ride" motion provided by D-Box is pretty cool... for about 2 minutes... after which it becomes incredibly annoying and distracting. But hey, that's just me... :) Many D-Box enthusiast love the effects: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/793724-all-d-box-enthusiasts.html)

In any event, if you're looking beyond, (below???) D-Box, at "tactile" transducers, there are multiple ways to provide tactile response. Some move the seats directly; some move the seats indirectly and some move a platform that sympathetically moves the seats. IMO and IME, the systems that move the seats directly provide the most useful and natural tactile response.

In that category, the Crowsons top the list. They sit underneath the seating framework, either under the "legs" or "feet" of the seating, or under the framework of the chair. They directly move the seating up and down based on the frequency of the bass signal. They don't move nearly as much as a D-Box transducer. They only lift and lower the seating by a few millimeters. But that movement is not implicitly noticeable as an up/down motion. It is so subtle that it is very "natural" and it blends with the bass response in a way that augments the bass without being overwhelming or overbearing or distracting.

The biggest benefit of the Crowson transducers vs. many of the other "tactile" transducers is their very low frequency, (VLF), response. Tactile response at 5 - 10 Hz "feels" very different than tactile response at 40 - 100 Hz. Many transducers can do 40+ Hz. The Crowsons are in a league of their own when it comes to >40 Hz VLF response. A tactile motion response at 10 Hz feels like a "wobble" or a "shudder" while a 40 Hz vibration feels kinda like sticking your finger in an electrical outlet. :eek:

The other major benefit of the Crowsons is their rapid decay. When an effect "ends", the Crowsons stop vibrating immediately. Other transducers systems will have some inherent inertia that will cause them to continue to vibrate, or cause the system they're attached to, to continue to vibrate, well after the effect has ended. The immediacy of the decay of the Crowsons further enhances their "believability" and the naturalness of their response.

The Crowsons are 8 Ohm transducers, so they're pretty easy to drive. They can be run in many combinations of serial/parallel to provide the optimal resistance for most any amp.

Bottom line, if your looking for actual "motion transducers", there's only one game in town... D-Box.

If D-Box is not your thing, the next best option is Crowson. IMO, in many ways, the Crowsons are not just the "next best" option, but the more preferable option.

Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks Craig for the detailed responce, however im still unsure as to how crowson responds in a film or game, like you said it moves the rear of the couch up and down only and that too only by a small amount. Does this movement in quick succession as a vibration/shake? Or does it not shake at all and only provides a very small hardly noticeable motion?

For example, like the scene i gave earlier where godzilla performs a roar, on buttkicker this would probive a shake for a few seconds until the roar finishes! How would crowson deal with this scene? Would it just keep moving the rear of the seat up/down for a few seconds also? Will this equal the whole couch vibrating and would it be a noticeable shake like buttkicker?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,953 Posts
Crowsons are such a step up from those 2 IMO. The buttkickers, clarks, and auras all seem fake and gimmiky to me. For a long time those were the only kind of transducer I had experienced so I thought I didn't like transducers. Then an avs member (craig john) recommended Crowson to me. They are more expensive but are so realistic!! I bought one and it's one of the best upgrades I have made in my room.

The coolest thing about it is that it moves my couch exactly like the low frequencies do on my subs (I'm a bit crazy, I have 8 18" subs) but even with more authority (especially below 15hz) since I am on a concrete floor.

http://www.crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3450/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx




I bought the Shadow 8 single for $500 and am powering it with a Behringer Inuke 3000 dsp. It's awesome.

Here is the avs thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...-crowson-tactile-motion-actuators-thread.html


Good luck man! :)
How were the Buttkickers mounted that you experienced? Buttkickers need an indirect type mount (a riser/platform built to flex and preferably the entire wood frame of the seating to come in contact with the riser as well as the riser having enough room for your feet so they also get the sensation and there is no disconnect) to achieve their full potential IME.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,082 Posts
Thanks Craig for the detailed responce, however im still unsure as to how crowson responds in a film or game, like you said it moves the rear of the couch up and down only and that too only by a small amount. Does this movement in quick succession as a vibration/shake? Or does it not shake at all and only provides a very small hardly noticeable motion?

For example, like the scene i gave earlier where godzilla performs a roar, on buttkicker this would probive a shake for a few seconds until the roar finishes! How would crowson deal with this scene? Would it just keep moving the rear of the seat up/down for a few seconds also? Will this equal the whole couch vibrating and would it be a noticeable shake like buttkicker?

Thanks
Short and dirty answer, yes, it will operate much the way the Buttkicker does, only better. The BK (of which I'm the owner of 2) does its own internal shaking, which in turn shakes the seats. The Crowson skips that first step and just shakes the seat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
988 Posts
That amp can be had for a reasonable price here on UK amazon. However, it won't be adequate as i need 4 transducers, 2 for each sofa! Hence i would need an amp that can work with 4 transducers, also i really need a quite amp - it can't be noisy.

Anyhow, all that can be looked at afterwards. What i first need to understand is how the Crowson works! As i just can't seem to understand, i know it sits on the back footing of the sofas, and moves the sofa around, up, down, diagonal etc.. But as its only on 2 feet how good is this? In my view you won't get a full sense of motion!

Also what i don't understand is how it would function in a film, for example say I'm watching Godzilla. He Roars, producing huge vibrations on the normal Clarks/ButtKickers, but how would this translate to a stereo Crowson that is only doing motion?

Please if you could describe exactly how it works?!

Thanks for your help
The owner Randy Crowson is very nice to speak to and can provide more info about how they work. He offered me the 10% AVS power buy discount.

Having experienced Buttkicker/Aura/Clark transducers I was skeptical about the Crowson's providing the tactile experience I was looking for. After reading through all of the positive reviews in the Crowson thread I decided to order 1 Shadow 8 to try out. They have a 30 day trial so there was very little risk. It was very easy to install and after about 20 minutes I was so impressed I called and ordered more.

I just bought an iNuke 3000dsp and will be using it to drive 4 Crowson's. Wiring them in paralllel results in a 4 ohm load which the amp can easily handle. From the measurements I've seen it outputs ~600 watts per channel into a 4 ohm load. The Crowson's are rated at 500 watts max. The DSP software in the iNuke has a peak limiter function that can be used to limit output power to 500 watts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Killer_Nads

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,425 Posts
How were the Buttkickers mounted that you experienced? Buttkickers need an indirect type mount (a riser/platform built to flex and preferably the entire wood frame of the seating to come in contact with the riser as well as the riser having enough room for your feet so they also get the sensation and there is no disconnect) to achieve their full potential IME.
Both ways, connected directly to the chair in a couple rooms and in another room they were connected to the riser - the riser was better for sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The owner Randy Crowson is very nice to speak to and can provide more info about how they work. He offered me the 10% AVS power buy discount.

Having experienced Buttkicker/Aura/Clark transducers I was skeptical about the Crowson's providing the tactile experience I was looking for. After reading through all of the positive reviews in the Crowson thread I decided to order 1 Shadow 8 to try out. They have a 30 day trial so there was very little risk. It was very easy to install and after about 20 minutes I was so impressed I called and ordered more.

I just bought an iNuke 3000dsp and will be using it to drive 4 Crowson's. Wiring them in paralllel results in a 4 ohm load which the amp can easily handle. From the measurements I've seen it outputs ~600 watts per channel into a 4 ohm load. The Crowson's are rated at 500 watts max. The DSP software in the iNuke has a peak limiter function that can be used to limit output power to 500 watts.
Im trying as hard as possible to find it, I've made up my mind to go with the Crowsons now - however I'm failing to find any in UK. Today i contacted the Official distributors of crowsons in uk, at first they didn't even have a clue about it - but after speaking to the correct guy Charles, he was aware of it and said we used to sell them a few years ago, but they have nothing now.

So basically theres no distributor in uk, possibly non in all of Europe! Ive also contacted crowsons website which I'm assuming is run by Randy Crowson? Its been 24 hours since then and still no response!! Starting to get worried now that i will never be able to get them :( the other problem is i required them installed within the next 2 weeks. If i can't get them then i will have to either go for the ButtKicker or Clarks.

What would be the second best option :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,425 Posts
Sucks to be on a time crunch like that!

However with the Crowson's you simply pit them under a leg of your chair and pit the motion isolators under the other legs so there isn't much to it, you don't actually attach the Crowson's to the chair does that help your time issues?

I bet Randall is not working during the holiday weekend and will be back next week. When I bought my Crowson's it took a few days to get ahold of him that can be frustrating. He is super helpful once you get a hold of him.
 
1 - 20 of 91 Posts
Top