[Mkard]

Hi all,


Please pardon me if I am posting inappropriately on your forum. I've had no luck finding a better one for my question, and after 4 days without any feedback on the "Audio Source" forum, I thought to try here.


Goal: Being able to make available on a USB card/drive entire CD's, multiple CD's and/or mixed tracks directly from (purchased!) CD's for playback on an audio device that can handle MP3's (8-320kbps/16-48kHz) and WMA's (16-320kbps/22.05-48kHz) in a manner most flexible and convenient for listener.


If anyone could direct me to the right forum/thread, or even non-AVS website for a "Primer" on the subject, or perhaps provide some simple guidance to me it'd be much appreciated. If it makes any difference, I am using a PC running Win XP service pack 3.


I have already 3 source devices (Oppo DVD, 2 x Pioneer BDs) and one AVR that are capable of playing music from a USB card. I've never done it as I've not been able to figure out the right way to put audio data onto the card/drive that would then be playable. Very frustrating for this old guy. What makes it a "now" issue is that I just purchased my daughter a Yamaha TSX-140 desktop unit for her 13th B'day. The Yamaha has, among other capabilities, full support for music via USB, MP3 or WMA files. Yamaha is in the mail, will get here next Tuesday. She'll want to try-out everything, so I need to have at least one of these USB's set up, loaded, and able to show-off the unit. I need help.


Your re-directions and/or advice are much appreciated.


Mkard

 

[Alx330]

To be honest I'm not sure I follow it sounds like your saying you don't understand how to rip CD's to MP3 format and copy to a USB storage device for use with a media player.


If so what you do is you place CD in your computers optical drive, then use a tool like LameXP or dbpoweramp to rip the tracks from the CD to MP3 format. Even WMP11 should do this task.


Copy the files it generates over to your USB storage device and you should be able to play them. You will have to check the media players manual to see what kind of file/folder structure it accepts. Probably only reads FAT32 formatted USB devices and may only read files on the root of the drive, not in separate folders.


If an iPod touch is being used with the TSX-140 then use iTunes to rip the music and it will sync what you select to the iPod and the iPod would have a much better UI for selecting what music to play.

 

[Mkard]

Alx330, Thanks for your response.


Sorry if I didn't make it very clear. Lets see if I can refine my questions a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alx330 To be honest I'm not sure I follow it sounds like your saying you don't understand how to rip CD's to MP3 format and copy to a USB storage device for use with a media player. Pretty much exactly right. I did however avoid the term "rip", as my understanding is that rip implies a lesser digital density (lower quality) than some other methods. If so what you do is you place CD in your computers optical drive, then use a tool like LameXP or dbpoweramp to rip the tracks from the CD to MP3 format. Even WMP11 should do this task. OK. Using these or other tools, I'd be able to get tracks from a cd, or multiple cds, onto the USBdrive. Any reason you are saying MP3? Could also be WMA? as Yamaha supports both types. Copy the files it generates over to your USB storage device and you should be able to play them. You will have to check the media players manual to see what kind of file/folder structure it accepts. Probably only reads FAT32 formatted USB devices and may only read files on the root of the drive, not in separate folders. This Yamaha supports FAT 16 and FAT 32. 9999 max files, 128 max folder number, 255 max file number per folder. Any guidance on how to make playing from USB "easiest" for searching, randomizing play, grouping different songs into playable folders etc? If an iPod touch is being used with the TSX-140 then use iTunes to rip the music and it will sync what you select to the iPod and the iPod would have a much better UI for selecting what music to play.

Alx330, regards you last above: I understand your reference to the user's interface for the i-Touch and iTunes being easiest. Problem is that even my kid notices that her music once it goes thru apple-ization, can become pretty thin and thready. Which brings me to ask about getting CD tracks at the highest possible quality onto a USB in the most playable format(s).


Regards structure of USB. This Yamaha instructs owner that USB Playback is determined by alphabetical order of first three characters of folder name. Files are then played in recording order.


I do appreciate your response. I am trying to jump into something that others have been casually using for 10 or more years, so I am lacking the language of one who is familiar with the subject. Makes it hard for you to get across your knowledge to this audience! So far pretty helpful.


Thanks,


Mkard

 

[MarkHotchkiss]

Hi Mkard,


A rip does not necessarily mean lower quality, but often means smaller size. If you are interested in preserving the CD quality, you should consider FLAC format (free-lossless-audio-codec). I assume the Yamaha would support FLAC. I would avoid WMA, as it is proprietary to Microsoft.


In addition to LameXP or dbpoweramp, also consider ExactAudioCopy (EAC). It is what I use to convert CDs to FLAC.


I setup EAC to rip to a folder structure that has the artist at the top level, the albums in folders under the artist, and the tracks in the album folders. You can rip to individual tracks, and I believe that is required if you use MP3 or WMA. I prefer to rip to one large FLAC file, with a CUE file that contains all of the track information. Accessing the music through the CUE file has advantages, like seamless playback, which many streamers otherwise can't seem to do.


Hope that helps.

 

[Mkard]

MarkHotchkiss,


Thanks. Good info. Sadly, the manual for the tsx-140 only speaks of MP3 and WMV. Though I do think that my other products (Oppo?) support FLAC.


I'll be experimenting getting a few CD's onto the computer in acceptable formats. Then try on an flashdrive to see what happens. I suspect I'll be back here tomorrow with some more confusions.

Again, thanks.


Mkard

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss A rip does not necessarily mean lower quality, but often means smaller size.

Nope. A rip is a digital copy of the track file(s) as opposed to recording it as it plays (in real-time or faster). (In other words, you cannot rip an LP.) It should be a bit-for-bit perfect copy but can be converted, upsampled or downsampled afterwards.

 

[MarkHotchkiss]

Hi Kal,
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss A rip does not necessarily mean lower quality, but often means smaller size.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson Nope.

I don't understand your post. Are you saying that a rip does mean lower quality, or that it doesn't mean smaller size.


If you are referring to the definition of "rip", then I'm sorry, my post wasn't meant to define "rip", but just to try to clarify what Mkard might expect from one.

 

[Kal Rubinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss /forum/post/20890494


Hi Kal,


I don't understand your post. Are you saying that a rip does mean lower quality, or that it doesn't mean smaller size.


If you are referring to the definition of "rip", then I'm sorry, my post wasn't meant to define "rip", but just to try to clarify what Mkard might expect from one.

I am saying that the issues of lower quality and smaller size are irrelevant to the ripping process. The ripped version is identical to the original unless the user chooses to convert it to, say, MP3 which will result in both smaller size and lower quality. OTOH, if it is converted to, say, FLAC, which will result in smaller size and equal quality. Leave it as WAV and it is the same size and quality.

 

[MarkHotchkiss]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/20891053


I am saying that the issues of lower quality and smaller size are irrelevant to the ripping process. The ripped version is identical to the original unless the user chooses to convert it to, say, MP3 which will result in both smaller size and lower quality. OTOH, if it is converted to, say, FLAC, which will result in smaller size and equal quality. Leave it as WAV and it is the same size and quality.

Ok, I understand and agree, in principle.


But not all "ripping" software conforms to that description (which is why I use EAC). Some will not correct ECC errors on from the CD, and others do not offer the choice of an "uncompressed" rip (RealPlayer is an example). They don't always produce an "identical" copy, although I wouldn't necessarily consider that a valid rip. It's more like a crime.

 

[Kal Rubinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss /forum/post/20891205


Ok, I understand and agree, in principle.


But not all "ripping" software conforms to that description (which is why I use EAC). Some will not correct ECC errors on from the CD, and others do not offer the choice of an "uncompressed" rip (RealPlayer is an example).

True and that is because such "rippers" are forcing conversions on the user. I use EAC, too.

 

[Mkard]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/20891053


I am saying that the issues of lower quality and smaller size are irrelevant to the ripping process. The ripped version is identical to the original unless the user chooses to convert it to, say, MP3 which will result in both smaller size and lower quality. OTOH, if it is converted to, say, FLAC, which will result in smaller size and equal quality. Leave it as WAV and it is the same size and quality.

Thanks Kal R and Mark H,


To zero-in a bit: Given the thus far known limits of the Yamaha product, and it'll do MP3 and WMA up to 320kpbs, with both constant and variable bit rates supported, with an MP3 sampling of 16-48kHz, and a WMA of 22.05-48kHz. Which of the two would you recommend via WMP 11 or some other software?


btw, what are the bitrate/sampling freq for a good quality CD in your experience?


Speak slowly or my head'll explode.

Mkard

 

[Kal Rubinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkard /forum/post/20891932


Thanks Kal R and Mark H,


To zero-in a bit: Given the thus far known limits of the Yamaha product, and it'll do MP3 and WMA up to 320kpbs, with both constant and variable bit rates supported, with an MP3 sampling of 16-48kHz, and a WMA of 22.05-48kHz. Which of the two would you recommend via WMP 11 or some other software?


btw, what are the bitrate/sampling freq for a good quality CD in your experience?


Speak slowly or my head'll explode.

Mkard

I do not use any lossy CODECs and try to keep all rips to the same bitrate as the original which, for CDs, is 16/44.1 in FLAC or WMALossless. No MP3s. Also, I use EAC for ripping, as noted above.

 

[joeydrunk]

An audiophile friend of mine showed me this. You pretty much have get around Windows if you want bit perfect audio, wasapi mode not sure. There can be many errors in ripping software as well. Try jriver stuff.

http://www.bluecircle.com/index.php?...6&section=main

 

[Mkard]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/20892415


I do not use any lossy CODECs and try to keep all rips to the same bitrate as the original which, for CDs, is 16/44.1 in FLAC or WMALossless. No MP3s. Also, I use EAC for ripping, as noted above.

Kal,


Thanks.


I think.

I will have to do some more research and experiments with ripping CD's to USB drive. The B'day present for my kid is delayed due to the YamahaStore.com

, and won't arrive before this next weekend so I'll have a little more time to figure a few things out.


It turns out that the only device I currently have in my home that'll do anything with music files via USB is my trusty Oppo 980h from 3 or 4 years ago! Nothing else will do anything for audio via USB. Sheesh. Officially, Oppo admits to mp3 and WMA 320kbps only. It is confirmed by me however, to work on WMA variable bit up to 368kbps so far.


On the Oppo forum I've had one member declare that his unit will play 2-ch .MLP via USB. My Oppo will play DVD-Audio disks and decode (?) the lossless 96khz .MLP track on that media type, while my Pio BD (2009?) will only see the DTS and DD 48kHz tracks of the same disk. So, lossless via USB on Oppo suddenly becomes a possiblility but will require my climbing the learning curve some more. Oh well, ...


I'll check the ripping software suggested above, EAC, and see what that allows me to do. I've a lot to learn.


Thanks again,


Mike

 

[Mkard]

Kal and MarkHotchkiss, and others.


Thanks.


Got it figured out to the limits of my gear. Yamaha TSX-140 will so far only do .wma, mp3 files up to @350kbps. Lossless seems impossible.


The OPPO however is confirmed to handle .mlp without issue via USB. Sounds good to my set-up. Pretty cool for an older unit.


The desktop audio Yamaha Tsx-140 arrived yesterday, and my kid put it through its paces. Radio, CD, and USB so far tested. High quality CD of DaveBrubeck-"Time Out"; sounds excellent in a 21'x16' room. Really nice. Musicality and detail rivals our full audio set-up in the main room. Not kidding.


Even the lower quality rips via the USB of the unit were quite good. There is a lot going on for sound processing inside that brick colored audio player.


Kid is happy, Mom is happy, all is good.

Thank you all for your help.


Mike