[ag studios]

Guys


I wont pay what sellers are asking, for 8" unit in the == UK == ( £ 1,500 + for anything in good tube condition, thats about $ 3,000+ )


( All prices below, in $ dollars, to make it easier to read )


7" units, are about $ 1500 - $ 2000 for something with 1,500 hours on tubes.


But these are basic ES units, and even 1500 hours will have affected the focus ability of these tubes.


Looking at recent digital prices, what are used 7" CRT REALLY worth ?


I mean, can their image match or better something like HC3000 DLP or Sony HS51a ?


I get the feeling, these UK prices are way too high. The sellers are saying that these basic 7" units offer much better home cinema, than the good digitals $ 3,000


Is this true ? Can a 7" ES better a good $ 3,000 digital ?


Or are 7" units, simply not even worth considering ?


If they are worth considering, what should they cost , compared to new digitals ?

I thank you.

 

[Person99]

Tough call. The digitals will be sharper, but have drawbacks. You mention the HS51a. The screen door effect on this PJ is so awful, I can't watch it from even the back row of my theater. The HC3000U has such horrible black level that all low APL scenes look very washed out and rainbows are seen quite often when watching content. They will both be sharper then the 7" machine, but in a 7" vs. cheap digital, you really need to not look at what is best, but what are the shortcomings you can tolerate.


Most people would probably be OK with either of these or a Panny AE900 or the like. If possible, I would try to see both of them.


In the U.S. it has gotten to the point that a 7" machine from an idividual is worth about $500. At $3000 (more than I paid for my late model LC 8") I'd have to consider other options. That is way too much for a 7" machine IMO.


Dave

 

[CaspianM]

I think you should consider buying an 8" EM LC from States and have it shipped over. At least look into it if you are serious.

I have owned a Sony D50 before and it was nice.

Two things you always get with CRT is closer sitting distance and better black level no matter what you buy. But if you want hi rez with excellent contrast you really should get yourself a nice hi end eighter. Have you talked to Curt? He knows ins and outs of shipping over to Europe. Problem with fixed panel are gray black (even HS60) and pixels unless you don't care. HS series are better than HC3000 IMO.

 

[draganm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ag studios /forum/post/0


Guys

I wont pay what sellers are asking, for 8" unit in the == UK == ( £ 1,500 + for anything in good tube condition, thats about $ 3,000+ )

( All prices below, in $ dollars, to make it easier to read )

$3000. US is a typical price over there. You could import one for $2400. including freight (re-tubed/re-furbished). It's the import duties that are going to kill you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ag studios /forum/post/0


7" units, are about $ 1500 - $ 2000 for something with 1,500 hours on tubes. But these are basic ES units, and even 1500 hours will have affected the focus ability of these tubes.Looking at recent digital prices, what are used 7" CRT REALLY worth ?

Now THAT is a little crazy. A nice top of the 7" ES set here is around $500.
http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...075&class&3&4&

Also check with curt palme, he's got plenty of ES sets
http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTforSale_EntryLevel.shtm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ag studios /forum/post/0


I get the feeling, these UK prices are way too high. The sellers are saying that these basic 7" units offer much better home cinema, than the good digitals $ 3,000 I mean, can their image match or better something like HC3000 DLP or Sony HS51a ? Or are 7" units, simply not even worth considering ?

No, they won't beat those machines in most areas, the DPJ's will be sharper, 3 times brighter, and less work. What the CRT will give you is dynamic range, they can go from full black to peak white although peak white isn't really al lthat peaky (not dim but nothing like a bulb machine). They will also run for thousands of hours with no bulb replacement. Very few people would pick a 7" ES over an HC1000. I personally would, but only if I could get the 7" CRT for $500. total, maybe a little more considering freight to EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ag studios /forum/post/0


If they are worth considering, what should they cost , compared to new digitals ?

I thank you.

like I said, about $500. is typcial street value for one with very clean tubes, up to $700. for a set from a dealer with warranty support. wit hthe latest advancements over the last 2 years the 7' ES sets have taken the biggest hit and are really entry level only IMO.

 

[CaspianM]



Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm /forum/post/0


No, they won't beat those machines in most areas, the DPJ's will be sharper, 3 times brighter, and less work. What the CRT will give you is dynamic range, they can go from full black to peak white although peak white isn't really al lthat peaky (not dim but nothing like a bulb machine)

Show me one sub $2k fixed panel that does not crush white! Yup brighter but not three times if calibrated but even then they tend to crush(clip) the white end badly.

 

[Person99]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM /forum/post/0


Show me one sub $2k fixed panel that does not crush white! Yup brighter but not three times if calibrated but even then they tend to crush(clip) the white end badly.

Maybe not 3 times. But enought brighter to notice. They are not really brighter than an 8, but noticably brighter than a 7". I can handle one of the digitals on a 7.5' wide screen, but a 7" ES machine tops out for me on around a 6' wide screen.


Dave

 

[draganm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM /forum/post/0


Show me one sub $2k fixed panel that does not crush white! Yup brighter but not three times if calibrated but even then they tend to crush(clip) the white end badly.

well we can pick-nits if you like but i'm talking about the average home set-up where the person sets contrats and brightness to where it "looks good" to them. I saw a very clean 1272 set-up and while it wasn't dim it didn't compare to a typcial 1700 lum DLP in light output. Of course the 1272 had NO pixels and it had nice true Blacks . Like I said, they are a good deal in the $500. to $750. range. If you look on the gon or flea-bay that's also what they are fetching.

 

[CaspianM]

Under 2K segment of fixed panel is somewhat misleading imo. I have had a couple and can tell you quality issue is plentiful. While they do certain things nicely but living with the flaws make you second guess your choice. As long as he knows what he is going to deal with it is all fine.

 

[pcCinema]

If I were in your shoes I'd buy a digital and that's saying a lot since I'm very biased toward CRT. Over here crt makes perfect sense given the prices are much more than fair, but I'll be damned if I'd pay 1080p digital prices for a 7" machine or even an 8" machine.


In the long and short run you would just be better served by a digital with a decent factory warranty UNLESS you have some visual problem with seeing rainbows or getting headaches etc from them.


I highly suggest before making any decision or just taking our advice you go see some of the best digitals in the price range for yourself at a good HT shop where they are set up properly in light controlled rooms with good sources. (Not cheap places like our Fry's and Best Buy stores here where they make everything look awful with improper setup in every regard.)


Neither digital or crt will be perfect in that price range for you, so only you can decide really.


Troy

 

[carpfisher]

I'd say keep watching Ebay UK patiently. In the last couple of months of last year, there were some good bargains to be had. An NEC PG6200 for £250, Barcos around the £200 mark, and I got my NEC XG1100 for £350, and boy does it throw a better picture than my old Marquee 8000. No, the tubes are nowhere near perfect, and some burn does show up occaisionally, but at that price, hey who cares.


I think the high prices are where a set has exceptionally good tubes - eg a Barco went for £800 that had new tubes. I think tube wear is easy to work around and live with, the rest of my family have done nothing but say how great the set looks, even though I know the imperfections.


I got my first projector from abroad, at the time when they were still expensive, and it was then cheaper to pay the shipping and import. I don't really think that's the case anymore, as the bottom has fallen out of the market - just look at the numbers of high price unsold sets on Ebay.


So watch Ebay every day, and you can be sure something will come along within a couple of months.

 

[ag studios]

Thanks everyone, for such great advice.


I agree, $ 500 is tops, for a 7". Trouble is, they are 4x that much in UK.


Also agree, a 7" for UK money, is madness. And digital with warranty, has to be the smarter choice.


Im not new to PJs, Ive had a few over the years, never CRT. 5 years ago, I could imagine, a good 7" would blow away any digital. 2006, this is now pretty much the other way around ( Black levels excepted )


Like the previous UK poster says, a good 8" for dirt cheap money, is the way to outperform entry level digitals, both in image and cost factor.

 

[MTyson]

A 7" CRT will still blow away a digital in some areas. My ECP blows away a $100,000 DLP cinema in some areas (black level and dark scene contrast). A unit like the HC3000U will have a sharpness and detail advantage, especially with HD, but it will still not come close to the black levels of CRT. You could project the HC3000U's fade to black onto a black sheet and it still wouldn't be nearly as great as a CRT's fade to black.


CRT can hit upto 700,000:1 contrast with gamma correction. CRTs need gamma correction, so I'd get a gamma correction circuit if I were you.


If it were that cut and dry that the new units easily beat 7" CRT I would've bought one already. They have clear advantages, but then again so does 7" CRT.


I'd go with 8" EM focus for sure. Look into an NEC XG series set. They have great control over the picture. They can really be fine tuned.

 

[CaspianM]

Yup agree but a 720p digital device won't be like a 1080i crt(8" em LC) in detail but sure in some materials it look sharper without the detail advantage.

 

[barcoed]

I have a Sony G70 and a Barco Cine6. There is no doubt that the G70 is sharper, brighter, etc. but the Cine 6 is still damn good! Liquid coupled optics but the most important thing of all - QUIET! No fans - do that in an 8

So they do have their place and if push came to shove and I had to keep just one, it'd be the Cine6.

Sadly they are rare as hen's teeth!

 

[ag studios]

Is the BARCO Cine-6 similar to the Barco Data 650 ?


a fanless one really interests me..

 

[fs123]

I know this might be blasphemy here in the crt forum, but I personally would even go with a Mit hd1000u over a 7" crt. Its going for around $850 here in the states and I would easily sacrifice the better PQ of the crt for the ease of use and flexibility of the digital.

 

[barcoed]

I think the Cine6 evolved from the 508

Look here: http://www.barco.com/Presentation/en....asp?GenNr=314

And here: http://www.barco.com/corporate/en/pr...ow.asp?index=0


I've taken the liberty of painting mine satin black - yummy!

 

[CaspianM]



Quote:
Originally Posted by fs123 /forum/post/0


I know this might be blasphemy here in the crt forum, but I personally would even go with a Mit hd1000u over a 7" crt. Its going for around $850 here in the states and I would easily sacrifice the better PQ of the crt for the ease of use and flexibility of the digital.

And...watch movies such as Star Wars with 2k:1 ratio and when credits roll see it in tri color. Yup I am going to get one.

 

[August_crt]

I just bought my first CRT, a Sony D50 (7" ES) for 600 Euro from a forum here in the Netherlands. It's a nice model with not too large of a footprint and a reasonably attractive exterior. My D50 has a tad of wear on the blue and green, but nothing serious and quite normal for it's run time of 2300 hrs. If you're not technologically challenged and care to spend some time setting it up it throws a very nice picture and takes both 1080i and 720p.


I think if you were to look within the EU, on different forums and the different fleabays you could get a nice one and not brake the bank on import and VAT. In the UK would be even cheaper for transport. If you want one just be patient and enjoy the hunt, it's half the fun. I've been on HT/CRT forums reading for years and with todays prices it was finally time for me to strike. The bottom line is if you prefer CRT over other types considering what's important to you, you can find a nice one for a good price. It is not set in stone that they have to cost six times as much just because you don't live in the 'States.

 

[KBK]

Some 7" CRT units are better than others.

My old totally modded out ECP 4101 w/07 tubes just came back to me. Maybe 1000 hours on it when it was gone, and I put maybe 2000 hrs on it. Not a spec of dirt, aging or burn.


I was using it at 1600x900 at 48hz or something like that when I had it. Maybe 1280x 960 at 60hz too. A rockin' machine for a 7"er if there ever was one. Probably one of the most classic and contestable CRT projectors in existence, if you followed the CRT mod wars.


This is the machine that started it all. (other than Chris Stevens, but he was silent about things-bidness is bidness, and all that) I got into SO many freaking battles on this. Of course, now...CRT mods are considered to be 'normal' by most. Such is life!

.

I might start it up and give it a bit of a tuning. But I do have to make it go away, finally. If you like classic CRT projectors, this would be like owning one of Patton's guns.




And doc, I got the emails, I'll do my damnedest to remember the PS for the Sony.