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I found a good deal on a Crown CE2000 amp and I already have a Crest CPX2600 ...they both have comparable power ratings... are there any drawbacks using them to power 4 15 inch subs ... 1 for each pair for my HT?
 

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nope not really. You can make it work just fine. There's no rule that says you have to use the same amps and subs, just ask TheEAR
 

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I would forgo the CE2000.... not the same lineage as the CE4000... at all. Search around and you will find a lot of posts about broken CE1000/2000 on the net.
 

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For 4 years I used a Crown K2 amp to drive my 15" amps, the K2 provided very good bass, but had no way of accessing the LFE track.

I've just replaced the K2 with a pair of Bash plate amps, besides giving me the option of engaging the LFE track, Bash are digital amps and thus are much more efficient, and don't produce all the heat the K2 did, which is wasted power.

The K2 was 800wpc and the Bash amps are 500w. I had the volume of the K2 set at 12:00 position and the volume on the Bash at only the 9:00 and get more volume.

You can buy Bash amps from partsexpress.com
 

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The K2 was 800wpc and the Bash amps are 500w. I had the volume of the K2 set at 12:00 position and the volume on the Bash at only the 9:00 and get more volume.

You can buy Bash amps from partsexpress.com


Which means absolutely nothing with differing input sensitivities between amplifiers.


You can use a regular amplifier with an LFE output... as all the LFE inputs on plate amps bypass any internal crossover.
 

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Quote:
Which means absolutely nothing with differing input sensitivities between amplifiers.

The point was that using the digital amps, produces more output with less power.
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You can use a regular amplifier with an LFE output... as all the LFE inputs on plate amps bypass any internal crossover

There is a difference between LFE track and bass, that's why pre/pros like Lexicon MC12 has two subouts (stereo), plus a third for LFE.


Having used a normal amp and using plate amps which extracks the LFE tells me there is a difference.
 

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You didn't get the point... an amplifier is a voltage gain device... IE voltage in is in direct relation to output voltage... some figure like 40x. If amp A) has a input sensitivity of .775 volts for full output and amp B ) has a input sensitivity of 1.4 volts for full output... which one do you think is going to be louder> ?


Not rocket science here.


There are many different spins on amp topologies, and some yes run cooler than others.


Movies on DVD have a LFE track.... ( low frequency effects...) while a regular CD does not feature a seperate encoding.
 

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re: CE1000/CE2000


It was revealed that the new XTI series uses the CE1000/CE2000

core amplificaiton design and we know how well the XTI performed

on Chucks test. /doh
 

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michael hurd,

I guess you think you're telling me something I don't already know.

My comparision between the K2 and Bash digital amps was solely to point out that the digital amps are much more efficient than the analog amp. Plus removing one heat producing amp from the equipment rack is always a good thing.

And yes, mentioning the 9 and 12 positions was not a good thought process, on my part at the time, as all amps have different gains in relation to their volume settings.


When I mentioned the LFE, I was only referring to movie sources connected to the HT receiver.
 

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You can mix and match as long as the amps will drive the laod with ease and...deliver the output (in watts) to get you to the desired SPL. This with the sub drivers you plan to use.


CE2000...I would stay clear from that unit for reasons stated above. QSC PLX/PLX2 now these would be a better choice. Behringer's EP2500 is a fine subwoofer amp,for the money.
 

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My comparision between the K2 and Bash digital amps was solely to point out that the digital amps are much more efficient than the analog amp. Plus removing one heat producing amp from the equipment rack is always a good thing.

I agree, after all my experiences with pro amps. I want digital amps as much as possible. Heat, fan noise, balanced connections all cause grief more then we need. Of course pro-amps are a dime a dozen, lots to choose from, spending $250 or $1K, there are many, many choices available.




Although the output issue is more of a Balanced to unbalanced connection issue, I know some AVRs do allow to pro amps to give more output and some AVRs do not. Sadly, I have AVRs that do not all pro amps.


Btw, have you ever used a Art CleanBox? to boost the signal? I know that my pro amps were much better when using that device although the increased distortion and the rolloff under 20Hz was annoying.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD /forum/post/0


I've just replaced the K2 with a pair of Bash plate amps, besides giving me the option of engaging the LFE track, Bash are digital amps and thus are much more efficient, and don't produce all the heat the K2 did, which is wasted power.

The K2 was 800wpc and the Bash amps are 500w.

So let me get this strait, your 500w BASH amp, which is a mix of both Class-D and Class-AB, and is slightly less efficient than pure class-D, produced less heat than a 1600w BCA (isn't that part of Crown's Class-I?) amp? How am I not surprised?



At full tilt, that Bash amp would have to be more than 3 times less efficient than the K2 in order to produce more heat. That fact you say it's louder than the K2 involves many things but, I would be willing to bet you never saw the clip lights blink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thylantyr /forum/post/14310540


re: CE1000/CE2000


It was revealed that the new XTI series uses the CE1000/CE2000

core amplificaiton design and we know how well the XTI performed

on Chucks test. /doh

What's this? How did this info become known?
 

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Originally Posted by Looneybomber /forum/post/14311427


So let me get this strait, your 500w BASH amp, which is a mix of both Class-D and Class-AB, and is slightly less efficient than pure class-D, produced less heat than a 1600w BCA (isn't that part of Crown's Class-I?) amp? How am I not surprised?



At full tilt, that Bash amp would have to be more than 3 times less efficient than the K2 in order to produce more heat. That fact you say it's louder than the K2 involves many things but, I would be willing to bet you never saw the clip lights blink.

No, you've got it backwards. The Bash digital amp is more efficient than the Crown K2. The K2 gave me plenty of bass, it would just pound your chest during certain parts of movies. But there was a lot of power wasted in heat.


The K2 was really providing 1250w to each sub, as I had them wired in parallel to one side of the K2. They sounded better that way than having one on each channel @ 800w/ea.

But the plate amps, @ only 500w/ea aren't lacking either, as I can access the LFE channel.
 

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Why do you think you cant "access the LFE channel" with a pro amp?
 

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Actually, I think what Looney was saying is that the Bash amp actually IS less efficient than the K2. But even that as it may be since it's only pushing 500W as compared to the K2's 1600W it'd have to be 3 times less efficient to produce the same amount of heat. This would explain your observation that it's not producing as much heat but for a different reason than you stated which was that it's more efficient.


Also, ditto to what Jerm357 said. In my setup I just have the LFE channel of my receiver split into 2 and connected directly to the inputs on my EP2500 (well, actually to the BFD which goes to the EP2500 but you get the idea...). This way you can also turn up the gain on the subwoofer channel and get more of the watts out of the pro amp.
 

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I could be wrong, but its always been my understanding if the switch on a sub amp is set to LFE, then you're getting the encoded .1 channel.

If the switch is set to normal/xo or you are using a regular amp, such as the K2, then you're only getting the normal bass output.


I base this upon pre/pros like Lexicon MC12. The next is from the lexicon site.

The MC-12 HD has an extensive array of audio outputs, including 7 main channels, stereo subwoofers, and a dedicated LFE channel.


But most, if not all, receivers don't have a dedicated LFE output, so if the amp used for subs isn't designed for LFE then only normal bass is output.


And there does seem to be a difference between what the output of the K2 was, compared to the Bash amps.


This is from the PE site.

BASH patented amplifier technology was developed to offer extreme amounts of power without the wasted heat and energy of traditional amplifier designs. Add to this an intelligent circuit design, and you get benefits such as extremely low distortion and high signal to noise ratios. The combination of clean output and high power makes the BASH amplifiers some of the best sounding subwoofer amplifiers on the market.

So a 500w amp w/o wasted heat is more efficient than an 800wpc amp that produces extreme heat.

Heat=wasted power.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD /forum/post/14312583


The K2 was really providing 1250w to each sub, as I had them wired in parallel to one side of the K2. They sounded better that way than having one on each channel @ 800w/ea.

But the plate amps, @ only 500w/ea aren't lacking either, as I can access the LFE channel.


Not to split hairs, but in this configuration these subwoofers are getting much less power than you think...


In parallel on one channel means that each subwoofer would have been getting half of 1250 watts. Divide wattage by number of woofers. So you are at 625 watts per subwoofer. Factor in "real" wattage output and input sensitivity issues and you may actually be getting more power with 2 500W digital amplifiers than 1 channel of the K2...just a thought.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD /forum/post/14312842


This is from the PE site.

BASH patented amplifier technology was developed to offer extreme amounts of power without the wasted heat and energy of traditional amplifier designs. Add to this an intelligent circuit design, and you get benefits such as extremely low distortion and high signal to noise ratios. The combination of clean output and high power makes the BASH amplifiers some of the best sounding subwoofer amplifiers on the market.

So a 500w amp w/o wasted heat is more efficient than an 800wpc amp that produces extreme heat.

Heat=wasted power.

Just because PE says that, doesn't mean it's missleading. Why? Because the K2 is not a "traditional amplifier design".


What does Crown say about their K2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown /forum/post/0


Using patented Balanced Current Amplifier (BCA®) circuitry, Crown®K-Series amplifiers give you massive amounts of power while gen-erating just one-tenth the heat of conventional amplifiers.

I don't fully understand Crown's Class-I (BCA), nor do I fully understand BASH technology, mostly because I've not read too indepth on either. However, both the BASH and K2 amps share much of the same architecture with Class D. Both have pretty distintive differences, but neither is as efficient as a full class D topology. The K2 is very close though and thus why it's one of very few pro-amps that are passively cooled. The only other (non-digital) one I can think of is the Behringer A500 and the amp it's cloned from. They only put out about 200W x 2 though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080c /forum/post/14313324


Not to split hairs, but in this configuration these subwoofers are getting much less power than you think...


In parallel on one channel means that each subwoofer would have been getting half of 1250 watts. Divide wattage by number of woofers. So you are at 625 watts per subwoofer. Factor in "real" wattage output and input sensitivity issues and you may actually be getting more power with 2 500W digital amplifiers than 1 channel of the K2...just a thought.

Ya, you're right, what was I thinking. But for some reason it seemed like the subs ran better on one channel than using both. But the other channel wasn't going waste, as I had another pair of speakers connected.


But I think the real difference is the Bash being digital and using the LFE connection.
 

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But I think the real difference is the Bash being digital and using the LFE connection.

Im confused??


Are you not using "Sub out" on your receiver to either the Bash or the Crown? so they are both getting the LFE signal.


Bash is obviously RCA to RCA but connection to the Crown would be RCA to XLR.


I just not sure what you mean when you talk about LFE only when connecting to the BASH amp.


I believe the whole output difference is because of the RCA to XLR connection and how AVRs and pro amps have different voltage levels.
 
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