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Discussion Starter #1
hi everyone,

after months of backorder a 42pwd6uy seems on the near horizon.

now that there seems to be a number of pwd6uy's out there, is anyone currently using a dvd player with dvi output (bravo d1,etc.) to watch dvds on a regular basis?

if so, can you please share your experience?

i have a good progressive scan player (pan-rp82), and i'm wondering if it's worth the hassle to order the dvi blade and fish the dvi cable through a tight wall fit?

is the increase in picture quality worth it on this ed display?


on a related note, i need to purchase a long set of component and composite video cables with rca/bnc ends. i'm sure bettercables products are excellent, but pacificcables have a good reputation and they are a fraction of the bettercables price. is the huge cost difference worth it?


similar questions were asked months ago, with little or no feedback.

i'm hoping with more pwd6uy's out there that a few people have crossed these bridges.

thanks in advance,

eric

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Eric,

FWIW, I tried the Samsung DVI-DVD player to my Panny 42PA20 (which, for nothing having to do with PQ, has since gone back for a 42PX20) and compared it to the Denon DVD-1600, which is similar to the RP-82 you have. To be honest, I was not impressed with the output on the Samsung, either in 480p or 1080i. I know others have liked the combination, but to my eye on my setup the Denon was superior in every respect. If it were me, I'd keep your current player through component and, if you really want to use DVI, get the blade and use it with a DVI-equipped HD box. Just my .02.


Josh
 

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My RP91 to component input through my Denon 1802 receiver produces such a nice picture, I couldn't imagine it being any better. I purchased a 30' rca/bnc cable from bluejeanscables.com and the quality was top notch for a very affordable price.


Steve
 

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I'm currently using an LG player with DVI on a Panny 42PA20. While the picture is better than my old player, you already have a very good player. I think the difference would be subtle from my experience. A reason I could see for getting the DVI board now is to make sure that setup works while in warranty and while the boards are available. There's a risk that 2 years down the road the boards might not be as available when you want to use DVI. Of course, maybe they'll have HDMI boards by then for the 6UY. I guess it depends on how much they support older models in the future. Just something to consider.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
many thanks for the replies.

still..., i was hoping that someone had hooked up the pwd6uy to one of the new dvi dvd players by now...

there are so many of us out there waiting for delivery of this panel that the information would be well received.


is anyone, with the cabelbility (pun intended) , willing to try it for the sake of exploring unknown frontiers, ie. the mars rover "spirit"? you'll probably have better luck than nasa at the moment...


also, has anyone tried one of bettercables $ component set on a plasma? do you think the silver wire and "time alignment"leads to a pq upgrade?

thanks again,

eric
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by humbland
anybody using a dvd player with dvi out to the 6uy?


FWIW, I have the Samsung HD931 DVD player thru DVI to a Panny 42" PA2OU...PQ is excellent anyway you do it on these plasmas from DVD but I find it definitely better via DVI than thru Component, IMO. As for cables, PQ differences are slight but cost differences can be huge...save the money and get the DVI blade...PQ difference there is immediate and definite, IME. Havent' done A/B comparison but the PQ improvement from the Sammy on my ED is likely due much more to the DVI path than the upcon features it has.


good luck,


elvis
 

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I hooked a Smsung HD931 to my 42PHD6UY via DVI using the Panny DVI cable supplied with the 6MD blade. Popped in a variety of DVDs. PQ looks the same as component from my Pio DV-563A. That is until I got to the scene in North by Northwest where Cary Grant meets James Mason for the first time. As Mason closes the curtains darkening the room his black suit erupted in "dancing pixel" artifacts. Switched to component and they were gone. Don't know if it was the Panny DVI blade or cable or the Samsung, but I took the Samsung back since the PQ was otherwise not improved over component. Simpleton's conclusion - the Panny internal scaler is good. It MAY do a better job scaling from 480p to 768 (native screen res) than 1080i down to 768. All I know is that I saw artifacts and no PQ improvement in a brief test with the Samsung HD931.


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Ball
I hooked a Smsung HD931 to my 42PHD6UY via DVI using the Panny DVI cable supplied with the 6MD blade. Popped in a variety of DVDs. PQ looks the same as component from my Pio DV-563A. That is until I got to the scene in North by Northwest where Cary Grant meets James Mason for the first time. As Mason closes the curtains darkening the room his black suit erupted in "dancing pixel" artifacts. Switched to component and they were gone. Don't know if it was the Panny DVI blade or cable or the Samsung, but I took the Samsung back since the PQ was otherwise not improved over component. Simpleton's conclusion - the Panny internal scaler is good. It MAY do a better job scaling from 480p to 768 (native screen res) than 1080i down to 768. All I know is that I saw artifacts and no PQ improvement in a brief test with the Samsung HD931.


Bill


As you said, your problem with a single DVD sequence in North by Northwest could involve the DVI, the DVD player or the cable, (we won't even mention issues like transfer quality, smudging, power artifacts, etc). Hard to say what it was as the 563 has it's own set of sins (artifacts and pixelation), like the 931 (black crush and 4:3 issues)...but hey, they both do an admirable job at the price... Anyway, hope you got the PQ you were after...me, I did and I see a definite difference with DVI using the 931 and from the DVD forum, I see I am not alone in that opinion...the 931 is very good for a budget upcon DVI capable player, IMO.


Whatever gets it for ya, as PQ is definitely in the eye of the beholder...



elvis
 

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>>>Don't know if it was the Panny DVI blade or cable or the Samsung
 

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Joe; i use the Momitsu with DVI out to Panny. Is the Momitsu

also based on PC standard or ?.


FWIW; feel the Momitsu over DVI delivers a nice clean picture in to the

Panny panel and frees up component for other hardware.


MH
 

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Both, the digital video standard and the digital PC standard, use 0 - 255 (actually, the allowed values are 1 - 254).


The PC standard sets black at 1 and white at 254. This means that if the video signal from a film goes below black or above white, the extra information will be discarded.


The video standard sets black at 16 and white at 235. This allows for signals to go below black (1 - 15) and above white (236 - 254). Remember, both standards use 1 - 254. It's where black and white are set that is the difference.


What the Samsung does is take the video levels (16 - 235) and expand them to fit the PC levels (1 - 254). Doing so eliminates the information that was captured below black (1 - 15) and above white (236 - 254) in the video standard. Basically what's going on is that the middle chunk is stretched out, pushing the extremes off of the table. So it's not a wider luminance range, it's actually a narrower range that the Samsung gives you.
 

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What do the 'below black' and 'above white' values represent? From your description I still don't see how it leads to clipping unless the lost parts of the signal actually represent some form of visual data. I've been curious about the whole Samsung HD931-colorspace conversion thing. It's weird that they would release a DVD player that does not follow the video standard and it is also weird that not all displays are affected by it. Thanks for the info.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mayor McCheese
What do the 'below black' and 'above white' values represent? From your description I still don't see how it leads to clipping unless the lost parts of the signal actually represent some form of visual data. I've been curious about the whole Samsung HD931-colorspace conversion thing. It's weird that they would release a DVD player that does not follow the video standard and it is also weird that not all displays are affected by it. Thanks for the info.


FWIW, I talked to a tech at Samsung about the 931 and 'black crush' at length the other day...his explanation is the fault lies in the luminance range of current tv's out there i.e. the HD931 outputs a greater luminance range than most are set to handle...in other words, the tv doesn't see the extra information....further, he said that Sammy has no plans to change this in future products as they believe most plasmas/DLP's/etc will go to the PC standard. He also suggested that many current plasmas/DLP's could be made to match 931 luminance output specs by changing the range in the Service Menu...not sure if this is true or a bunch of hooey and will post if I find out more info.


Anywho...this is not really a big issue for me...I have watched many, many DVD's now on the 931 and the blacks/whites look great and far from 'clipped'. Some on these forums have done A/B comparisons with the 931 and other players without this issue (Momitsu)and can't see the 'black crush' either. Why did I call Samsung? We all want more black...but what it's got is not bad, IMO.


I have been impressed with it's stability, as opposed to the Bravo, Momitsu, etc....it works every time, no exceptions and I feel the PQ is very good for the money. Like my ED, it will move to the bedroom a coupla years down the road when the HD-DVD players come to market, but for now, the 931 is a great little player.


elvis
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mayor McCheese
What do the 'below black' and 'above white' values represent? From your description I still don't see how it leads to clipping unless the lost parts of the signal actually represent some form of visual data. I've been curious about the whole Samsung HD931-colorspace conversion thing. It's weird that they would release a DVD player that does not follow the video standard and it is also weird that not all displays are affected by it. Thanks for the info.


I believe that not all displays are affected because some displays utilize the PC standard and some (primarily retail/consumer models?) utilize the Video standard. I believe that the JVC I have has this problem because it states that it only accepts Video resolutions. However, I also have a 931HD and the better image qulality it outputs via DVI more that compensates for the occassional problematic dark scenes in poorly mastered DVD's.


Samsung's statement to Elvisdoc is interesting. However, it is also probably just corporate justification for a miscommunication between their PC division and consumer retail products divisions when bringing the technology and expertise of this large company together to create this product.


DVI has always been part of the computer world and only recently entering the consumer video arena. They are just sitting on the fence waiting to see which way the wind blows. I hope and expect that they will actually correct this issue in the newer versions, since more retail users of these products will dictate their compliance.
 
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