[DucatiDad]

Guys,

I have a audio theory question for you... I've got a B&W 600 series system in my theater. Currently my HTM61 (center channel) is on a speaker stand. However, I am upgrading to a larger subwoofer (Epik Knight or Caliber) and I was wondering... For asthetic reasons, it would be preferable to place the subwoofer front and center and place the center channel speaker on top of it (using the rubber feet that came with the center channel). However, I am concerned that it may negatively impact the front soundstage. Of course I will be able to test the theory after buying the sub... I am just trying to do my homework before making the purchase. I could always cram it between the center channel and the left or right 683 but once again, that may negatively impact the front soundstage.


My current subwoofer is a Velodyne DPS-12 and is less than half of the size of the Epik sub that could replace it so I would assume that the impact it has on the front soundstage is minimal compared to the larger subwoofer...

What do you guys think? Will I be OK using the subwoofer as a center channel stand?

 

[Bob7145]

I'm using an old sub for the center speaker stand but it is not in use.

 

[atdamico]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DucatiDad /forum/post/15021099


Guys,

I have a audio theory question for you... I've got a B&W 600 series system in my theater. Currently my HTM61 (center channel) is on a speaker stand. However, I am upgrading to a larger subwoofer (Epik Knight or Caliber) and I was wondering... For asthetic reasons, it would be preferable to place the subwoofer front and center and place the center channel speaker on top of it (using the rubber feet that came with the center channel). However, I am concerned that it may negatively impact the front soundstage. Of course I will be able to test the theory after buying the sub... I am just trying to do my homework before making the purchase. I could always cram it between the center channel and the left or right 683 but once again, that may negatively impact the front soundstage.


My current subwoofer is a Velodyne DPS-12 and is less than half of the size of the Epik sub that could replace it so I would assume that the impact it has on the front soundstage is minimal compared to the larger subwoofer...

What do you guys think? Will I be OK using the subwoofer as a center channel stand?

I can't speak to the interaction between the center channel and sub being on top of each other, you will have to see what, if any, negative interaction there is. But most don't place a subwoofer based on asthetics but rather SQ. Part of the reason for a dedicated sub rather than just mains that can dip low enough is that often the physical space where the mains need to be is not the best spot to produce low effects. Most experiment with their sub, by moving them around the room and either listening, measuring, or both to ensure that the sub is located in the ideal spot to eliminate boominess, and loss of frequency. Perhaps the best place in your room for sub placement and reproduction of low bass and effects is smack dab in the middle of the room pointed directly at your face, but I sort of doubt it. Get a stand for your center and place your sub where it sounds and measures the best. Why else even purchase a better sub? If you care more about asthetics than SQ just keep the one you have, right?

 

[Jonomega]

center of wall would not be the best for overall loudness of the subwoofer, but it would excite less room modes giving a smoother FR. The location actually isn't bad and is recommended for the reason just stated and also if you happen to have a higher crossover point, it helps with blending the bass into the front stage.

 

[sivadselim]

To add to what has been said, if you DO decide that, aesthetically, you need/want to place the sub there, it will be fine to put your center channel atop it. There won't be much interaction between what the center channel reproduces and what the sub reproduces. They'll only share frequencies in the crossover region. They'd share these frequencies no matter where you place the sub. So, even though there may be interactions, they won't necessarily be any "worse" or "better" than placing the sub elsewhere. Not really something to worry about.


Of course, you'll want to aim your center speaker toward ear-level.

 

[SpectralD]

I had things set up this way at one point, a few rentals ago. It seemed to work very well with no real issues.


I agree that corner placement for a sub is generally not a good spot for achieving good frequency response at the listening position. I've usually had best results with the sub somewhere between the midpoint of a wall and the corner. The actual midpoint probably won't be the ideal spot, but it's never been a bad spot for me. Definitely better than corners.

 

[DucatiDad]



Quote:
Originally Posted by atdamico /forum/post/15022963


I can't speak to the interaction between the center channel and sub being on top of each other, you will have to see what, if any, negative interaction there is. But most don't place a subwoofer based on asthetics but rather SQ. Part of the reason for a dedicated sub rather than just mains that can dip low enough is that often the physical space where the mains need to be is not the best spot to produce low effects. Most experiment with their sub, by moving them around the room and either listening, measuring, or both to ensure that the sub is located in the ideal spot to eliminate boominess, and loss of frequency. Perhaps the best place in your room for sub placement and reproduction of low bass and effects is smack dab in the middle of the room pointed directly at your face, but I sort of doubt it. Get a stand for your center and place your sub where it sounds and measures the best. Why else even purchase a better sub? If you care more about asthetics than SQ just keep the one you have, right?

Thanks,

Because of my narrow -11' (but long -25') room layout, I have only the front and rear of the room to place the subwoofer. I can only fit the subwoofer between the front mains (L+R) or I could place it anywhere in th rear of the room. I know that if placed correctly, it is difficult to audibly locate a subwoofer but if the subwoofer ends up behind the second row of seating... It may not sound as good as it would in the front of the room- I could be wrong. However, I have noticed that most people place their subs in th front of the room- I know... that doesn't mean it's right.


Please understand that I am very interested in sound quality more than asthetics. I have had the room treated and have bass traps in place (2 cases of 2" OC703).



I appreciate the time you guys took to respond. Thanks.

 

[jz4h3m]

I thought there was a problem a problem with the sub "shaking" the center channel set directly upon it and so I was planning on setting up some sort of isolation stand between the two - though from the above posts you say I can just stack a speaker on the sub?

 

[Aaron Gilbert]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jz4h3m /forum/post/15028614


I thought there was a problem a problem with the sub "shaking" the center channel set directly upon it and so I was planning on setting up some sort of isolation stand between the two - though from the above posts you say I can just stack a speaker on the sub?

If the subwoofer is well designed (ie cabinet doesn't wobble or vibrate excessively even at highest output), then I would say yes, setting the center speaker directly on it should be no problem. Even if the sub was perfect though, I'd still put at least some self adhesive rubber feet on the bottom of the center speaker.

 

[xcapri79]

In my living room and master bedroom systems I use two subwoofers at the surround locations with bookshelf speakers connected to and set on each. In the case of the livingroom, I have Polk LSi 9's set on PSW1000 subwoofers and in the master bedroom I have Polk LSiFX's set on PSW505 subwoofers. To me they sound great especially when I use multichannel sound for music.


The rubber feet of the speaker is usually sufficient separation so that you don't have one hard surface on top of another, but to make sure they don't stick, I put a place cloth in between. The cloth also acts to prevent dust from directly settling on top of the subwoofer.


With a previous setup, I did the same as you and set a center channel speaker on the subwoofer since I had similar space and room limitations.

 

[Jonomega]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jz4h3m /forum/post/15028614


I thought there was a problem a problem with the sub "shaking" the center channel set directly upon it and so I was planning on setting up some sort of isolation stand between the two - though from the above posts you say I can just stack a speaker on the sub?

If the subwoofer is well made with an inert cabinet, it shouldn't shake much at all. I'd probably lay a couple old soft mouse pads on top of the subwoofer and put the center on that. Or if you are feeling spendy, you can pick up some Auralex Mopads for about 40$.

 

[sivadselim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jz4h3m /forum/post/15028614


I thought there was a problem a problem with the sub "shaking" the center channel set directly upon it and so I was planning on setting up some sort of isolation stand between the two - though from the above posts you say I can just stack a speaker on the sub?

Well, don't set it directly on the sub without at least some rubber bumpers or something like that to isolate it and also help hold it in place. If you set it directly atop the sub, with nothing at all in between, it will most likely create some rattling and may slide around when shaken.


There are all sorts of things you can use between the two, though. From rubber furniture bumpers to a piece of carpeting to a rubber kitchen sink mat to those rubbery shelf liners to those rubbery carpet pads to a piece of kitchen floor mat to some rubbery drink coasters to just a piece of foam rubber to a mousepad(s) to something like the MoPads Jonomega pointed out. You get the point. Use your imagination. Anything softish will work. ANYTHING. Cut it to size if you have to. Don't make a big deal out of it.


And don't forget to tilt it up so that it is pointing toward your ears' level.