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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE REPLYING.


i have a 16x9 projector.


i would like to use CONSTANT HEIGHT for all my viewing, regardless of aspect ratio. i'm planing to trade my 16x9 screen for a 2.35 screen.


now, a 2.35 image is about 1.3x WIDER than 1.78 images - the same factor that ISCO II provides (from 1.3 to 1.78)


anyway to use ISCO II to create 2.35 images on a 2.35 screen, i need a way COMPLETELY FILL my projector's 16x9 panel with a 2.35 image (getting rid of black borders & creating 'tall skinny' people that ISCO II then will stretch to 100% fill 2.35 screen)


QUESTION: is there a DVD Player that will do this? (in an easy / user friendly fashion for bonus points)


and if so, can it be done for BOTH 16x9 enhanced 2.35 DVDs AND 'letterboxed' 2.35 DVDs?


ps: if there is no such DVD player (my preference since it stays in digital domain), is there a 16x9 native projector with this feature?


ps2: i'm not very interested in external scalers - may a last resort?


ps3: i'm definately NOT interested in HTPC
 

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Which 16x9 projector do you have??


Some (like the Sony 10HT and Sanyo 16x9 LCD projectors) allow for a 2.35:1 ratio image from a 16x9 enhanced DVD to be "squeezed" into the 1.78:1 ratio panel with no black bars on the top and bottom. For non-anamorphic DVDs, you must first have the image scaled to a pseudo anamorphically squeezed signal (a Panasonic DVD-RP91 player can do this trick). This may yield a compression ratio compatible with the ISCO II. Then by properly placing and aligning the ISCO II lens in front of the projector it would stretch the distorted image out to a proper 2.35:1 ratio on the screen. How much undesirable distortion this would create I don't know. If subtitles drop into the lower black letterbox bar (like CTHD), then you can shift the image up a few clicks.


However, most of these same projectors with this feature won't allow you to do this with HDTV signals. Why? I have no idea. Stupid design move.


Dan
 

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bossmonkey,


The only thing I know of that will do all that you ask is an HTPC.


Greg
 

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There is in deed a DVD Player which is capable of doing this and I own it. It is called


CineUltra - another name is Malata NP 996


It has the following outputs:


YUV interlaced and progressive (PAL and NTSC), RGBHV/Csync/Sync on Green interlaced and progressive (PAL and NTSC), Composite and S-Video.

It provides Cinch Output and a VGA-Connector (D-SUB 15). It is codefree. It can scale the picture in any means, any horizontal and vertical compression and extension is possible. When set to 16:9 Display it displays ANY source in 16:9. 4:3 images will be squeezed, letterboxed images will be vertically stretched. The picture quality is awesome. Yes, it provides Karaoke functions, but I never used them. It is normal standalone player and until now (more than one year) I had no problems with any dvd on the market.

I bought it for (converted for your convenience) 925$.


I don't know if someone in USA imports this thing, it is a Chinese player with a Panasonic all-in-one chipset, also providing MP3, unencrypted audio-DVD and SVCD support.


Hey dude, let's make a deal: I buy a CineUltra for you here in Germany and you buy me an ISCO II in the powerbuy and we send the devices as gifts to each other (c:=


Here in Germany the cheapest price for the isco is about 1250$...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
Which 16x9 projector do you have??


Some (like the Sony 10HT and Sanyo 16x9 LCD projectors) allow for a 2.35:1 ratio image from a 16x9 enhanced DVD to be "squeezed" into the 1.78:1 ratio panel with no black bars on the top and bottom. For non-anamorphic DVDs, you must first have the image scaled to a pseudo anamorphically squeezed signal (a Panasonic DVD-RP91 player can do this trick).


Dan
Dan,


are you 100% positive that the Sony 10HT and the Sanyo 60 both have this feature? i've heard conflicting reports. what are the specific projector commands that do this?


thks!
 

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If the pj can display a 16:9 letterboxed image without black bars on top, bottom and on the sides with a zoom function, then it can absolutely display a 2.35:1 anamorphic image using all pixels. The pj just has to think it is fed with a 16:9 lb image.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by joswig
If the pj can display a 16:9 letterboxed image without black bars on top, bottom and on the sides with a zoom function, then it can absolutely display a 2.35:1 anamorphic image using all pixels. The pj just has to think it is fed with a 16:9 lb image.
joswig - i'm not sure what post you are responding to.


by "letterbox" i assume you mean "non anamorphic" or "non 16x9 enhanced"


what i questioned was the ability of the 2 mentioned projectors to do the scaling (COMPLETELY fill its 16x9 panel with a 2.35 image WITHOUT losing any image content) - this means you can use ANY DVD player with the projector & use the ISCO II to do the stretching back to 2.35


PS: regarding your CineUltra/Malata:


- how easy is it for the DVD Player you have to do the scaling? both for anamorphic 2.35 material, as well as non-anamorphic 2.35 material?


- is it a one-button operation?


- can it 'detect' the aspect ratio automaticaly?
 

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Quote:
by "letterbox" i assume you mean "non anamorphic" or "non 16x9 enhanced"
Yes. Exactly.

Quote:
what i questioned was the ability of the 2 mentioned projectors to do the scaling (COMPLETELY fill its 16x9 panel with a 2.35 image WITHOUT losing any image content) - this means you can use ANY DVD player with the projector & use the ISCO II to do the stretching back to 2.35
Yes and I meant that zooming a non anamorphic 16:9 picture to fill a 16:9 panel (each 16:9 pj should be able to do this!) is nothing else than stretching a 21:9 anamoprhic image to fill he full panel. This is (for the pj) exactly the same operation!


Quote:
- how easy is it for the DVD Player you have to do the scaling? both for anamorphic 2.35 material, as well as non-anamorphic 2.35 material?
On the remote: Features, Next = Menu for scaling. Do the scaling with the four arrow you normaly use for navigation in menues. Stop if you are ready.

Quote:
- is it a one-button operation?
Not really. About three buttons.

Quote:
- can it 'detect' the aspect ratio automaticaly?
No. But it automatically converts a non anamorphic picture with aspect ration >= 1.78:1 to an anamorphic picture. Otherwise: Use the scaling features.

Quote:
There are some external scalers that very easily do constant-height varying-width. They include ROCK and LEEZA.
Yes sure. But I am talking about a product (I was absolutely amazd that this product existet, because it had all the features I once wished a player should have) that costs less that 1k, includes a progressive scan dvd-player and does the scaling in the digital domain. So you don't have this multiple D/A A/D transformation.


One nice side effect: The subtiles can be fixed to their screen position so that no zooming has any effect on them. So if they are in the black bars of a non anamorphic picture yu normally can'T use your pj's zoom functions to fill the panel without loosing them. With cineultra no problem.


You see: I am still very happy with his player. It is the most flexible standalone dvd-player I have ever met in the range of a reasonable price.
 

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I own both the ISCO II and the Sony 10HT but I didn't try yet both together.

Something sure: The Sony allows quite precise height and width adjustment for 2.35:1 movies if they are recorded on 16/9 enhanced DVD (no 4/3 letterbox). No need for a "special" player or HTPC or video processor to move black bars out.

The only think I still need to verify is the short throw lens of the Sony: maybe it is too short so the ISCO II may crop the image corners a bit.


If someone is interested, I will try.

Also, if some Europeans are interested, I may organize a powerbuy for the ISCO II (after the AVS powerbuy and if they agree using their forum for that): about 1125 Euros, maybe less (plus VAT, I can't discard the VAT for european buyers).


Carlos
 

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Here in Germany I can get an ISCO II for about 1350 Euro including VAT (16%) and including shipping. Would your powerbuy include shipping?
 

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Which time-table do you expect? Can the price go down more when we find enough buyers?


If the powerbuy price is only about 50 Euro less than the price I will get at the german retailer I would rahter buy it directly: If I order it today I will get it in a few days. If there is any problem with it, I can talk to the retailer and send it back in an easy way.


If you tell me: Maybe 1000 Euro: Oh well, I would order...
 

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Hmmm... don't dream too much. No one could sell below the ISCO's price. Remember the suggested retail price on ISCO website, it's 1950 Euros (without VAT).


Personnally, I prefer "neighbors". They can come to see the lens, try it with their projector, then order it if the lens is what they look for.


In your case, I don't think you will ever find cheaper than your retailer. 1350 Euros, VAT and shipping included is excellent, similar to the AVS powerbuy.


Carlos
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by noah katz
"Yes and I meant that zooming a non anamorphic 16:9 picture to fill a 16:9 panel..."


But when doing this don't most projectors crop the sides?


Thanks
Noah - i've been trying to get the answer to this question for quite some time now, without conclusive success. maybe i should create sample images in photoshop to illustrate?


there are claims that some projectors (like the Sony 10 and the Sanyo 60) can NON-PROPORTINALLY scale 2.35 material.


however, i've been unable to find anyone able to verify or state the specific command(s) that will let the projector(s) do this.

once again: the task is for the projector to:


- take a 2.35 image (anamorphic or non-anamorphic) from a regular DVD player, and SCALE it so that:


1.) every single pixel of the 16x9 LCD panel of the PJ is used


AND


2.) none of the image is cropped


this obviously implies that the image will appear distorted when projected (hece the ISCO II).



i have gotten contradictory information to date.


hoping that the truth is out there ;)


help!
 

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Then again:


a 21:9 anamorphic picture can be scaled to fill your 16:9 panel without loosing any pixel or picture.


An 21:9 amorphic picture (why does everybody talk about non anamoprhic instead of amorphic :D ) can not naturally be scaled taht way. Not with every 16:9 pj and every DVD-Player.


But do you really want to scale the remaining 274 lines of an amorphic 21:9 image to that size?


[Calculation: 480 * (4:3) / (21:9) = 480 * ( 4 * 9 ) / ( 21 * 3) = 480 * ( 4 * 3) / 21 = 480 * 12 / 21 ~= 274 ]


But once again: With anamorphic DVDs: YES YES YES!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by joswig
Then again:


a 21:9 anamorphic picture can be scaled to fill your 16:9 panel without loosing any pixel or picture.
joswig - i believe that your Malata player can do that.


my last question actually concerns PROJECTORs, not DVD Players


the confusing issue is the claim that there are at least 2 PROJECTORS that can do the same scaling you are talking about, using ANY DVD player (the Sony 10 & Sanyo 60).


i have been unable to get confirmation on this from any projector owner.
 

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I said what I meant:


EVERY 16:9 PJ CAN SCALE AN ANAMORPHIC 21:9 PICTURE THAT WAY!!!


Why? Because a 21:9 anamorphic picture has exactly the same geometry like a 16:9 amorphic picture and he his able to do this to fill his panel without loosing pixels. You just have to tell the pj that he has an amorphic 16:9 picture on his input. Nobody would buy a 16:9 pj if it weren't able to scale an amorphic 16:9 picture to use the full panel! Then you would be unable to watch TV, VCR or LaserDisk letterboxed pictures without bars on top, bottom, left and right.


If you have a 16:9 TV-set: Try out to set the geometry 16:9 zoom and feed it a 21:9 anamorphic picture. You will see an anamorphic picture on your TV set WITHOUT black bars anywhere. I tried it. I also once tried this in a shop which was selling a VW10HT. I had the same idea like you and my ABSOLUTE answer is: Yes, if we are talking about anamorphic DVDs the pj can do it. If we are talking about amorphic: I honestly don't know but I don't think so. Thise feature wouldn't be implemented beacuse nearly nobody would need it.
 
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