AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am pretty new to digital music having used Vinyl until 1994 and pretty much nothing except cheap computer speakers since then.


I have Just invested in the following.

Yamaha RX V3800 receiver.

Creek evolution Cd Player

Monitor Audio RX1 Speakers Fronts

RX Centre

Vector V10 rears

Paradigm DSP 3400 Sub


I love the sound I am getting now however I have been advised that if I added a Valve DAC to the Mix between the CD and Amp my sound would be warmer richer etc


Listen to mainly Classical guitar, Jazz and Old Style. Rock Deep purple etc with the occasional symphony or concerto thrown into the mix


Any opinions good or bad and what would your recomendations be

Budget Would be around $1000-1500


Cheers
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20,735 Posts
You already have what should be a very nice CD player. Much debate about whether different DACs even sound different at all. I believe they do, but even when they do the difference is subtle or minute.


You didn't list any room treatments in your list of stuff. Spending $100 on room treatments will GROSSLY best any $1,000-1500 you could gain on a DAC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know the Cd is a great player. I was specificaly advised to use a Valve DAC. No room treatments done. What would you recommend. BTW Only have to worry Decor wise about a very uncaring labrador Mix
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20,735 Posts
"I was specificaly advised to use a Valve DAC."


Perhaps by someone making a comission selling you that DAC...?


If you already have an extremely satisfying high-quality CDP, why the desire to upgrade anything.


Acoustics is far more significant an issue, the most fundamental part of any audio system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,270 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughalot
I know the Cd is a great player. I was specificaly advised to use a Valve DAC. No room treatments done. What would you recommend. BTW Only have to worry Decor wise about a very uncaring labrador Mix
Adding room treatment is a good advise. Your CD player has an excellent DAC already, just make sure that you use direct/pure (or whatever Yamaha calls it) mode in your receiver, when signal is NOT processed by DSP there.


For additional $1000-1500 you could afford much more advanced speaker set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,886 Posts
Quote:
If you already have an extremely satisfying high-quality CDP, why the desire to upgrade anything.


Acoustics is far more significant an issue, the most fundamental part of any audio system.
I second ChrisWiggles opinion.


Nevertheless, if laughalot is really eager to buy a tube DAC for some other reasons, ther's no point in spending big money.


So I would recommend the Eastern Electric tube DAC:

http://www.morningstaraudio.com/shop...mid=12&catid=6
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I appreciate all the replies. This all started when I was looking into adding a Turntable to the mix. I got all sorts of conflicting opinions. I started this thread so as to get advice from those who have nothing to gain or loose. That way you get honest opinions. I would be open to looking into room treatment and the rest of the money will be used for buying more music. Sometimes we spend so much time listning to the equipment that we forget to llisten to the music.


As for a more advanced speaker set I dont believe $1500 would do that. Before I decided on the RX1's I tried the RX8's and 6's without the Sub(Paradigm DSP 3400). The 1's with the sub gave me a far more satisfying sound.


PLEASE ADVISE ROOM TREATMENT OPTIONS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 /forum/post/19511144


Adding room treatment is a good advise. Your CD player has an excellent DAC already, just make sure that you use direct/pure (or whatever Yamaha calls it) mode in your receiver, when signal is NOT processed by DSP there.


For additional $1000-1500 you could afford much more advanced speaker set.

Not in this Country. Speakers have a duty of 30%. Add to that the exchange rate about 4-1 and we end up paying an kings ransom for decent stuff. Example the Paradigm DSP 3400 has a list price of Around $900. Here the ist price is 8000 Shekels (More than Double)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,923 Posts
"he Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC may be the finest Digital to Analog Converter on the market today. Incorporating the ESS Technology 9018 32 bit DAC chip eliminates the discussion that digital has a long way to go before it can ever become the standard against analog playback. With the Dynamic Range of 129dB,and a staggering Frequency Response from 15Hz-32KHz every note is beautifully portrayed. This is a true high resolution DAC with 24 Bit/96kHz sampling."


Funny, I thought that the digital debate was pretty much dead, except for a few analog zealots. Even high end setups these days, usually include a digital source. Maybe people have just given in, but still think digital is inferior
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Your cd player way outclasses your receiver. I doubt highly that in your situation you'll get much out of a new dac.


Try a tube processor between your cd player and receiver. Grant fidelity has a couple. For you cd player I'd probably get the better one. They seem to add a little musicality to a system.


Are your speakers getting enough power?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Me thinks more than enough. Receiver is Spec'd at 145W into 8 Ohms RMS. Dynamic Power (IHF) into 6 Ohms (Speakers Rated at 6 ohm 80W) 205W. Dynamic headroom into 8 Ohms 0.84dB.


Strange what you say about the Receiver. Read the reveiws and it was rated as a very good receiver. Well above average and at a listed price $1700 could not in anyway be regarded as a cheap receiver.


Thanks for the info on the tube processor that exactly what I,m looking for. Just need to find one with two inputs and two out puts and I am on my way.


Seems my other option is the DAC; TubeDAC-09 Selling for around $225
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Sorry, I'm a bit of a receiver snob. I don't think that the majority of them can provide adequate power to tower speakers with multiple drivers. My hang up not yours. I'm not saying that I would't own or use a receiver, but I have bookshelf speakers.


My outclass comment was more about how good your cd player is. That thing is a world class cd player, much nicer than I'll ever be able to afford/own. In the world of 2 channel audio it is probably not your limiting factor. I think that you would have to spend a pile of money for an outboard dac to improve on what you already have.


I looked at tube dac and both buffers for my modest setup. Because of the quality of my components I went with the cheaper tube buffer, but I have it between the pre-amp and amp section of my integrated amp. I seriously doubt that the dac in the tube dac is better than the one in your cd players, although it would work as a switcher for the tube section.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Meant to apolgize for my comments which seem to slam your receiver. I don't really know the yamaha brand or your model.


My experience with receivers is in the denon/pioneer brands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No offense taken. The RX1's are not tower speakers but bookshelf speakers that act and sound like towers. I have never been a fan of tower speakers, have always had bookshelfs with a good sub and the Paragdigm DPS 3400 is a great sub. I absaloodle agree with you about the CD player it is awesome. The receiver I think is also one of the better ones. I bought it because of the Audio quality and not for Video, that is just an added bonus. Listened to both the Pioneer and Denon receivers and they didnt quite match up to the Yamaha.


The reason for wanting the Tube DAC is that certain CD's are harsh and horrible, but I suppose they would be that way with almost any system.


Looking into the advice a tube DAC or Tube processor, I reasearched the Grant Fidelity tube proccesor and spoke to their CEO. He advised against adding a Tube DAC to my set up, he felt that it would change the sound of my CD player to its detriment (Strangly Honest for someone wanting to sell their Products) He suggested that If I wanted the Tube warmth I might try the B283 MKII tube processor. It wont change the sound of the CD player but just add a bit of tube warmth to the system. My other option and probably the best one is to buy a tube amp and use the receiver as a pre amp for the front speakers only
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Sorry again.... Not that it is a good excuse, but have children now and haven't kept up as much as i used too. Have a newborn and 2.5 year old in the house.


Quite simply I have found that my B-283 (Mk 1) has a nice effect on my system. I don't know how to exactly explain it, but with my NAD integrated amp it has added a little rhythm to my system. My system sounds a little more musical with it in the circuit. Is it snake oil? Maybe, Placebo?? Maybe but I like it and it's not like I spent $1k on it.


I also tried it with an old B&K / Parasound setup and really couldn't tell the difference.


Technically it is a gain stage. I think that testing has shown a 3db increase with the tube in the circuit. You are simply running the signal through the tube.



I saw your other thread in the amp/processor area. I would pass along the following:

You always have to temper what people say in accordance with what you believe. Some people think that every CD player sounds the same, all speakers sound the same. You will see the arguments about double blind testing and flat system response like it is a clinical thing. These same people would tell you that all av cable sounds the same, wire is wire and it doesn't matter. Other people believe differently. I personally don't care which camp you are in. It is probably obvious which on I am in.


Good luck in whatever you decide to do. The important thing here is to enjoy the music.


Regards,


Charlie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for the reply. Kids will do that for you. Mine are both married and I now only have to consider a delightful blonde (See Picture). After a whole lot of reasearch I have decided to go with a dedicated amp for music. I may have to try a few before I find the one thats right but I will start with the Creek Evolution which my dealer has on display. If I like I buy, if not I try something else. If the Creek fits that would be great cause I can get it at 50%off. Added A pic of my system as it is now.


YOU ARE SO RIGHT ABOUT "ENJOY THE MUSIC". SOMETIMES WE ARE SO WRAPPED UP IN THE EQUIPMENT THAT THE MUSIC IS FORGOTTEN.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
400 Posts
Going with a dedicated amp for music sounds like a great alternative, and probably the better route.


Personally I would love to be able to get a nice integrated like a creek, rega, arcam, music hall, peachtree, or other.


Are you going to get one with home theater bypass?


I have a friend that has a setup like that and it is the best of both worlds.


Great pictures!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Possibly. I am going to try the Creek Evolution (Which doesnt have a Power Amp input)I will plug the CDP directly into the Dedicated amp and for the time being use the pre-out fronts of the AVR into the AV input of the dedicated amp. The "Dedi" amp will then always control the fronts and subwoofer. If I like the sound of the Creek I will look for a for a switching box. Both Amps, Speaker and Subwoofer outputs into the switcher and then on to the speakers and Sub. this way the dedicated amp does not have to work whilst watching movies etc and there are no volume hassels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Came home a couple of hours ago with the Creek Evolution amp. Here are my first impressions. Tops are cleaner and a lot less harsh. Voices are outstanding I listened to Renaisance House of Cards Annie Haslams voice is always beutiful but can sometimes be very stringent, not now. The biggest change that I hear is in the bass it is so much more focused. I will spend the rest of the weekend playing and post further observations. I brought the Creek home for the sole purpose of determining if there would be any discernable difference. It is more than obvious. I am now going to probably go way over budget and get the Vincent 236 MK 11 Hybrid Amp. Tube Pre and Solid State Power.


Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
You might want to try a tube buffer instead of a dac since you already have a good one in your cd player,maybe the rich sound you are looking for is in the tube sound.just a thought.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top