[programmergeek]

I am about to pull the plug on a deal of 2ce sig speakers but I really wnat the quatro so when they become avaiable my dealer will upgrade me. Anyhow I just wanted to get the feeling from you guys if this is a good choice I will be using them in a 7.1 system for 1/2 ht and 1/2 music. Now I will have to find sourounds, center and sub I will probley go with the vandersteins but $$$$ 4 g more for 4 sourounds and center ouch...


Jason

 

[SportyBry]

Hey Geek,


Vandersteens are a GREAT choice. I have them now, including 2CE sigs

and their VCC1 center channel speaker. No need to get anything more

expensive for the center- it as awesome. I personally liked the 3A

Signature a bit more -- just not 100% more, as the price would dictate.

The low end of the 3As would likely be sufficient for most people, negating

the need for a sub. With the 2CEs it could go either way.


The vandy subs also look a bit cool -- may be pulling the trigger on one of

those myself, soon.


I also have some Thiels which, I hate to say, I like more than my Vandys

for straight music. I find them a little more "pure" in the midrange-- except

that Thiels are a notch up in the price department, mainly because of their

absolutely gorgeous cabinets.


Either way- have you considered looking at the used market ? prices drop

significantly (30-50%) on a product which typically lasts a lifetime. Check

you dealer for trade-ins and the used listings by good folks at

AUDIOGON.com


Thiel 2.2's, Thiel 3.6's, Vandy 1C's, 2CEs & 2CE sigs are all a good bargain

these days.



-Sporty

 

[Bigus]

Vandesteen speakers involve a set of trade-offs or compromises just like every other design. Vandersteen has chosen to pursue first order crossovers, which in theory can provide 0 phase shift for a person positioned in the sweet spot. This comes at the expense of large driver overlaps, which typically results in wild variations in vertical polar response as you move off axis. The first order filters also increase doppler distortion and harmonic distortion of the midrange and high frequency drivers, as they will produce larger excursions at lower frequencies than a more steeply sloped crossover. Both of these effects place a limit on the maximum SPL before a given distortion threshold is surpassed (whatever you deem to be acceptable) relative to many other speaker designs.


I do like Vandersteen's pursuit of reducing stored energy in the drivers and enclosures. In general, from both a theoretical point of view and from my own personal listening, I find Vandersteen speakers to be exceptional for low volume music listening, especially small ensemble acoustic music and vocalists, when seated in the sweet spot. However, I would really have to question their appropriateness (despite what Vandersteen and Vandersteen owners would suggest) for an HT application, where desired SPL levels are much higher and people will almost certainly be seated in positions other than the sweet spot.

 

[tpigeon2003]

Programmergeek.


I believe that volume is the only issue you have. I look at the sweetspot issue as a bonus and not a detraction from vandersteen speakers (I guess I am an optimist). I believe the pursuit of good audio is a selfish pursuit given the technology available today and I believe you sacrifice a lot in audio quality if you do not have a sweetspot in your HT.


You should know that I have a 7.1 Vandersteen HT system and I love it. No one has ever told me to turn up the volume, people have told me to turn it down. However, it is a very high end system (Pair of 5's 4 VSM 1 sigs, 2 2WQ's, VCC5 Center (for guests only) and 2 V2W LFE subs) and can play louder than most Vandersteen systems with less distortion (I never hear any, perhaps my ears are not trained).


You should ask SportyBry about his system and loudness as he has a much better frame of reference than I do until you get the Quatros, which may be the speaker above all others for HT. More importantly, you should go to your dealer and play the Vandersteens loud enough for you to make sure you are fine with the volume issue.


As for my guests, they are not sophisticated enough to know the difference between sitting in the sweetspot or not. They just tell me that the system is the best thing they ever heard, so I feel I am not taking anything away from them as they sit on the side .


My personal feelings on loudness are that I hate loud mid and high frequency effects and I love low frequency effects. This makes me far from a purist in movies as I do not want to feel I am in the middle of a real battle. It is fine for me to know that a battle is going on . This is what I do, I turn down the volume in the movie (reference level is way to loud), and I compensate by turning up the gain on my LFE woofers. This is obviously my own preference and would make many movie purists drop dead of a heart attack but it works great for me and might be something worth looking into for you.


To sum up, get Vandersteens if:

1) You will not have lots of guests or you don't really care that much about them

2) You are aware and comfortable with the Volume limitations of the speakers. Subs do allow these speakers to play louder btw, by about 5db's.


Sorry for the long post and I hope this helps.


Edit--Sporty, Thiels are a mighty fine speaker and you may like them better than the Vandersteens after doing this, but put a stereo pair of 2WQ's on either the 2CE or 3A sigs (with either a home made or model 5 xover) and then tell me about the midrange of the Vandersteens compared to a similar priced Thiel.

 

[Bigus]

I may not have been very clear in my previous post, so allow me to clarify. When mentioning the distortion products and subsequent SPL limitation, I didn't intend to imply that Vandersteen speakers weren't capable of playing loud. I'm sure they are. My point was that the distortion products in Vandersteen speakers will increase much more rapidly as the volume is increased than in many other speakers. They may very well play at ear-bleeding levels, but their distortion will be fairly high primarily due to the first order filters. If you aren't sensitive to distortion products at high SPL's, or don't intend to ever turn the volume of music or movie material up too high, you may never experience this steep distortion/SPL slope.

 

[tpigeon2003]

You were clear Bigus. Vandersteens are not for everyone. If you play music or movies really loud, then these are probably not the speakers for you.

 

[programmergeek]

I don't play it to loud but I do sometimes turn up the system so I can hear it throughout the house. Wonder if that will be an issue.

 

[Bigus]

Probably not. If you are wandering around the house and listening to speakers playing in another room, the distortion they are producing is probably (1) much less audible than if you were sitting in front of them, and (2) much less of a concern in any case since you are obviously doing something other than trying to enjoy your speakers in the best way possible. In other words, I personally wouldn't be too concerned about just how "good" my speaker sounded when I was walking around the house, other than to make sure they were loud enough that I could hear them just fine.


If you turn the volume back down to pretty moderate levels when you are in the room with them, whether listening to music or watching a movie, these speakers could still be an excellent match for your needs.

 

[programmergeek]

True as long as I am not going to blow them.

 

[tpigeon2003]

They will distort long before they blow and the sound will not be subtle. I had this conversation with richard vandersteen a long time ago.

 

[clf]

Hi everyone ( first post around here )


i happen to listen closely the new Quatro at CES, so here's a small input regarding soundstage and the sweetspot issue :


soundstage was generally speaking very large, featuring a good depth, still focus was easily lost sitting on the side. Female voice (was it Diana K ? sigh...) presence was then kinda blurred laterally, as the overall soundstage was "flatening".


That being said, sitting back in the sweetspot allowed to enjoy a more than decent focus -nothing exceptionnal, but hey, these hotel rooms...


Beside that, sound was very involving with proper dynamics and bandwidth coherence. No sign whatsoever of the distortion issue discussed in this thread, even though they were playing at a "loud enough" level in there.


To adress another concern here, music was very lively and inviting outside the room with the door open.


Well, just a few comments on this experience...