[gus738]

Hi everyone well i would like to know what you guys think of the Velodyne CHT-12 ?


i have this sub with my Onkyo TX-SR701 and Infinity Beta 50 floor stand towers and the purpose of this thread is because i feel as if this sub is loud but not clean accurate or maybe i dont know what else to say about it maybe its just like that?


i dont know much about subwoofers and i would like to understand more about it and yes i know its to make a boom lol but i want to know the extent of it like htz


i would also like to know if the newer Velodyne subs are better then this one? or is the era of the Velodyne CHT-12 better?


because i have a warranty with Circuit City and i can bring it in for service until they issue me a new one or store credit?


anyways the reason why i asked about the sub is because when i bought it over 3yrs ago it was open box and that could mean it could of been a store display or custom return etc


also would it be a good ideal to match my infinity beta line up with the sub from infinity ? like the CSW-10?

 

[ransac]

I can't comment on the CHT as I have never heard one. Therefore I can't make a comparison to new models.


The sub's purpose is to produce the lowest octaves of music and movie sounds. Even when used with so called full range speakers, it will relieve the speakers of the task of producing the lower sounds so the speakers can do what they do best.


Depending on your speaker's and sub's capabilities, you should select a crossover setting that best suites them. This is normally around 80 Hz. Blending the sub and the speakers takes time and experimentation. You also have to deal with phase issues.


Getting clean bass can be very difficult, but is possible unless you have a really crappy sub. I don't believe the CHT is that. Placement is a key component of clean bass. Your room acoustics can play havoc with the low frequencies, so here again, experimentation is required.


There is no need to match the speakers with the same manufacturer. You want a sub that can carry the sound range your speakers can't or can't easily cover. But there isn't a voicing problem like you can have with the speakers at the higher frequencies.


That's it for me at this time.

 

[gus738]

thanks randy now this crossover at 80hz why do people mentioned that such great subs can go as low as 23hz and what not?


also what is the point to the hz ? the higher the hz the less or more bass? or the more accurate?


also powerd subs vs non powerd some have amps in them and i still question this day if the receiver is really doing a job? would this result of a crappy sub results?

 

[mojomike]

Re: The CHT-12, there have been some extensive tests run on the sub as you can see here: http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....t=0&rid=0&SQ=0


This shows that the sub is capable of pretty strong output (105db measured from 2m, outdoors). It shows a very smooth frequency response, but starts to fall off rapidly below 30hz. That means the sub will not be able to reproduce some of the lower notes in certain movie soundtracks, but will should sound very decent in general because of it's smooth response.

 

[Hurtful Goat]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14211011


thanks randy now this crossover at 80hz why do people mentioned that such great subs can go as low as 23hz and what not?


also what is the point to the hz ? the higher the hz the less or more bass? or the more accurate?


also powerd subs vs non powerd some have amps in them and i still question this day if the receiver is really doing a job? would this result of a crappy sub results?

The crossover point is the frequency at which your mains start fading out and the sub starts taking over. Ex, with an 80Hz xover, your speakers play down to 80Hz, then are rolled off, and the sub begins taking over at frequencies below 80Hz.

 

[ransac]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14211011


thanks randy now this crossover at 80hz why do people mentioned that such great subs can go as low as 23hz and what not?

The crossover is to set the upper end of the sub woofer and the lower end of the other speakers. When people refer to 20 or sub 20Hz they are talking about the audible or tactile low end of the sub's frequency response (FR). The lower the sub can go, well, the more content you can hear/feel from movie soundtracks. Some music, but very little,can extend below 30-40 Hz. Mostly pipe organ or electronica music.

Quote:
also what is the point to the Hz ? the higher the Hz the less or more bass? or the more accurate?

Hertz (cycles per second) is the frequency of the sound wave. All sound is a combination of frequencies, so you always want speakers capable of producing as many frequencies in the audible range as faithfully as possible. All sound reproducing devices introduce distortion. The less distortion, the better, but some distortion can make for a more appealing sound. Distortion and accuracy are major topics that can and have been argued on forums for a long time.

The lower the Hz number, the more you are in the bass region.

Quote:
also powered subs vs non powered some have amps in them and i still question this day if the receiver is really doing a job? would this result of a crappy sub results?

All speakers have to be driven by an amplified sound source. Some (most) subs have their own amp built in (active or powered sub) and some do not (passive sub). The primary purpose of the amp is to amplify a low signal to usable voltage levels to drive the speaker. Other sound conditioning circuits can be added to the amps input side. The receiver's job is to direct the source to the correct channel. It also has signal processing circuits built in. The AVR also has a built in amp/s, but these usually don't have enough total power to drive all the speakers and the sub. Subs can take a lot of power. So, with modern AVRs, the subwoofer/LFE channel is output before the built in amps and lets the subs amp do its job.



enough for tonight.

 

[ribbit]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike /forum/post/14211061


Re: The CHT-12, there have been some extensive tests run on the sub as you can see here: http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....t=0&rid=0&SQ=0


This shows that the sub is capable of pretty strong output (105db measured from 2m, outdoors). It shows a very smooth frequency response, but starts to fall off rapidly below 30hz. That means the sub will not be able to reproduce some of the lower notes in certain movie soundtracks, but will should sound very decent in general because of it's smooth response.

the CHT is the previous version of the CHT-R (220v) and DLS-R (110v) that can be found in the avtalk tests mojomike linked. i think DSP and a remote was added to -R versions of the subwoofer.


basically, if the CHT-R can't produce the lowest octaves, i have to assume the older CHT can't as well.

 

[gus738]

mojomike thanks for replying so this means for the most of the stuff this sub is good great or excellent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike /forum/post/14211061


Re: The CHT-12, there have been some extensive tests run on the sub as you can see here: http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....t=0&rid=0&SQ=0


This shows that the sub is capable of pretty strong output (105db measured from 2m, outdoors). It shows a very smooth frequency response, but starts to fall off rapidly below 30hz. That means the sub will not be able to reproduce some of the lower notes in certain movie soundtracks, but will should sound very decent in general because of it's smooth response.

hurtful thanks as well so your saying once i set the cross over to 80hz and anything that hits 80hz or less the sub runs that?


ex 80hz or less sub does the job 80hz or higher and the fronts do the work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurtful Goat /forum/post/14211197


The crossover point is the frequency at which your mains start fading out and the sub starts taking over. Ex, with an 80Hz xover, your speakers play down to 80Hz, then are rolled off, and the sub begins taking over at frequencies below 80Hz.

3 more questions


1)the numberthat mojomike mentioned at 30hz once i would se the cross over knob to bellow 30 then thats where it fails? or how is this measured?


2)on the knob is it better to run a lower number or a higher number on the hz?

ex knob turned all the way down to the lowest hz isnt that what the sub is made for?


i still need clearification in this area what hz to set on the sub and why and why not


3) since the CHT-12 is outdated is the newer version that replaces it any better or is it a stepdown?


what is the newer model? dsp 12?


EDIT: sorry i didnt see the replies while i was posting great information from everyone! thanks


in laymans terms what should one look for? also if i understand correctly you guys are saying to lower my subs knob to the lowest possible? does this result of a cleaner sound rather then a constent rattling bass? or is it vice vera?

 

[ransac]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14211328


3 more questions


1)the number that mojomike mentioned at 30hz once i would set the cross over knob to below 30 then thats where it fails? or how is this measured?

You want to use the crossover settings in the AVR. Set the sub's crossover to the highest setting, effectively disabling it. Mike is stating the measured FR of the sub. This is measured with a sound pressure level (SPL) meter while playing sine wave sweeps of high-to-low or low-to-high frequencies. Some use much more sophisticated methods. 30Hz is not a crossover issue, but a sub capability issue. It can't produce usable sound below 30 Hz. This is a design issue, but not necessarily are flaw.

Quote:
2)on the knob is it better to run a lower number or a higher number on the Hz?

ex knob turned all the way down to the lowest Hz isn't that what the sub is made for?


i still need clarification in this area what Hz to set on the sub and why and why not

See #1. Where you set the upper crossover depends on your sub's and speaker's capabilities. Typical is 80Hz.

Quote:
3) since the CHT-12 is outdated is the newer version that replaces it any better or is it a step down?

Pass.

 

[gus738]

oh man can this get any easier, Ok so on my Onkyo TX-SR701 i would set the cross over to 120hz or 80hz or lowest?


on my Sub velodyne CHT-12 i would max it out?


and what you mean pass? please clearify thanks

 

[ransac]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14211423


oh man can this get any easier, Ok so on my Onkyo TX-SR701 i would set the cross over to 120hz or 80hz or lowest?


on my Sub velodyne CHT-12 i would max it out?


and what you mean pass? please clearify thanks

You need to spend some time reading some of the links in THIS thread. A lot of very useful information on setting up a sub.


What speakers do you have?


'Pass' means no comment. There are many subs, including Velos, that should be better than the CHT, but I have no experiance with the CHT and I don't know if the newer models are better or not.

 

[cacihome]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14211423


oh man can this get any easier, Ok so on my Onkyo TX-SR701 i would set the cross over to 120hz or 80hz or lowest?


on my Sub velodyne CHT-12 i would max it out?


and what you mean pass? please clearify thanks

I had a CHT-12...

I Changed it for a VTF-3 MK3 Turbo from HSU...Boy I was missing a lot.

 

[mailiang]

The CHT-12 is basically the same sub as the DLS4000R, which has a tuning point of 25hz. It can extend cleanly down to 20hz (no more then 10% THD) with a reasonable amount of output. ([email protected]@2meters ground plain) in a 7500^3 ft room.

Quote:
I Changed it for a VTF-3 MK3 Turbo from HSU...Boy I was missing a lot.

What you were really missing was a lot more output.

Ian

 

[fshagan]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14211423


oh man can this get any easier, Ok so on my Onkyo TX-SR701 i would set the cross over to 120hz or 80hz or lowest?


on my Sub velodyne CHT-12 i would max it out?

As one newbie to another, maybe I can help. I just went through this.


1. Set your Onkyo receiver's "sub crossover setting" to 80 hz. Now your Onkyo receiver will send the sounds over 80 hz to the main front speakers, and the sounds under that to your sub woofer.


2. On the back of the sub, set the crossover dial all the way to the max setting; that allows the sub to play every note sent to it by your receiver (because your receiver is controlling the cross-over ... the level at which the sound is sent to the sub ... you don't want the sub's settings "cutting off" any of the sound from the receiver). Set the sub volume to about the third little hash mark, not quite up to 50% to start.


3. Play something with a lot of bass, either a song with a good electric bass line (the open E on an electric bass is something like 42hz, below the crossover setting, so a song with a lot of bass will work). Or a movie with some low sound ... Finding Nemo has a great scene where Marlin and Dory are sleeping beneath a submarine and it starts to slide ... there's a very low rumble. A big crash scene in Transformers will have a lot of bass noise too.


4. While the above is playing, sit in your favored spot to listen. Can you hear the low sounds? They should not sound like they are coming from the sub ... instead, they should fill the room and sound richer and fuller than they do when you don't have the sub. If you can hear the sounds coming from the sub ... drawing your eyes to the sub when a loud bass note hits ... then the sub is either in the wrong position in the room or too loud.


Now the fun part ... you get to tweak and play with the volume setting for the sub and its position. You might find moving the sub away from the corner so its farther away from one wall makes it sound better. Or increasing the volume might make it better. Or moving it closer to the corner. It is better to do this when your wife is NOT present.


I've seen guys talk about setting the volume in the receiver instead of the sub. Your receiver probably has a speaker set up where you can adjust the volume output for the right, left, center and sub. I prefer to keep the sub's volume knob at or below 50% and then use the receiver to boost the output to the sub to increase its output, but I don't really have a technical reason for doing that. I'm hoping that it allows the receiver to have more control when switching from movies to music.

 

[gus738]

thank you ransac great link i'll be going there as well very useful information!

i have the infinity beta 50 floorstand towers for my front left and front right

why?


and let me re phrase the question, better in terms of what? more clean SQ less distertion or louder or more accurate? is that what you mean by better or what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac /forum/post/14211431


You need to spend some time reading some of the links in THIS thread. A lot of very useful information on setting up a sub.


What speakers do you have?


'Pass' means no comment. There are many subs, including Velos, that should be better than the CHT, but I have no experiance with the CHT and I don't know if the newer models are better or not.

thanks mailiang for that info so more output means louder? is that what the other poster got? just a louder setup ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang /forum/post/14216395


The CHT-12 is basically the same sub as the DLS4000R, which has a tuning point of 25hz. It can extend cleanly down to 20hz (no more then 10% THD) with a reasonable amount of output. ([email protected]@2meters ground plain) in a 7500^3 ft room.




What you were really missing was a lot more output.

Ian

fianly thank you fshagan for that useful information i have set my onkyo 701 to 80hz, now on my sub i max out the cross over knob to 120hz?

 

[ransac]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14217473


thank you ransac great link I'll be going there as well very useful information!

i have the infinity beta 50 floorstand towers for my front left and front right

why?

When the time comes, knowing the capabilities of your mains may lead to recommending you lower or raise the crossover.

Quote:
and let me re phrase the question, better in terms of what? more clean SQ less distortion or louder or more accurate? is that what you mean by better or what?

Any or all. The last couple years, the OEMs have been one-upping each other. Better SQ, higher output, lower extension, more features, bigger boxes, smaller boxes. This is all good for the consumer.

 

[cacihome]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang /forum/post/14216395


The CHT-12 is basically the same sub as the DLS4000R, which has a tuning point of 25hz. It can extend cleanly down to 20hz (no more then 10% THD) with a reasonable amount of output. ([email protected]@2meters ground plain) in a 7500^3 ft room.




What you were really missing was a lot more output.

Ian

Nope. Extension and output... The 3.3 Turbo has almost another usable entire octave

 

[gus738]

huh? when the time comes to what? are you refering once i know the capabilites of my 50's i would be adviced to change the cross over? is what what you mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac /forum/post/14217520


When the time comes, knowing the capabilities of your mains may lead to recommending you lower or raise the crossover.

With that being said the most common issue is that you get disturtion because of a louder speaker right?


what if i were to ask i want accurate but clean bass not considering LOUD what would that lead me to? because the main problem of today on subs is that everyone wants


more accurate clean and loud bass which by adding loud you get disterion and the cylcle re starts


so if we eliminate the major question in mind "LOUD bass" that gives us a easier less disturtion clean accurate bass


now my question is what kind is that sub that i spoke ???

Quote:
Any or all. The last couple years, the OEMs have been one-upping each other. Better SQ, higher output, lower extension, more features, bigger boxes, smaller boxes. This is all good for the consumer.

 

[ransac]



Quote:
Originally Posted by gus738 /forum/post/14218993


huh? when the time comes to what? are you referring once i know the capabilities of my 50's i would be advised to change the cross over? is what what you mean?

After you have your system set up and properly calibrated, you should give us your impression as to how it sounds. Because your speakers are rated down to 35Hz, lowering the 80Hz crossover to 60Hz, may improve the overall sound. 'When the time comes' means, don't worry about it now.

Quote:
With that being said the most common issue is that you get disturtion because of a louder speaker right?


what if i were to ask i want accurate but clean bass not considering LOUD what would that lead me to? because the main problem of today on subs is that everyone wants more accurate clean and loud bass which by adding loud you get disterion and the cycle re starts so if we eliminate the major question in mind "LOUD bass" that gives us a easier less disturtion clean accurate bass

Anything that makes sound induces distortion. There isn't anything I know of that can produce a pure tone. Sometimes distortion is a good thing. Harmonics, a form of distortion, can assist your audio senses with hearing low frequencies. The amount of distortion produced can increase as you generate higher volume. That doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to hear the distortion elements because the primaries are alos louder and can mask the distortion. If you push a speaker or amp beyond it's capabilities, you will get more audible distortion in several forms. Since you want to remove 'loud' from the equation, then I feel you are dwelling too much on the distortion component. Most of todays middle and top tier subs will produce a clean enough sound. The CHT should also be able to fill your needs.

Quote:
now my question is what kind is that sub that i spoke ???

Most of todays middle and top tier subs will produce a clean enough sound. The CHT should also be able to fill your needs. I don't believe the CHT would be recommended by anyone, we are just staying withing the confines of your original post. If you really want sub recommendations, first read THIS thread. Post your information, then ask for recommendations. Unfortunately, you will get so many, mostly viable, recommendations, you will be more confused.

 

[mailiang]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome /forum/post/14217897


Nope. Extension and output... The 3.3 Turbo has almost another usable entire octave

I agree it goes lower, but for all practical intent and purposes, it's the shear extra output below 25-30hz that renders more impact on most audio tracks.



Ian