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Velodyne DD15+ - My experience

4947 Views 10 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  murphy2112
7
Velodyne DD Plus 15 - My experience

System:
  • Denon AVR 1910
  • Klipsch F-30 Towers
  • Klipsch C-30 Center
  • Klipsch R-3800 In wall Surround
  • cheap RCA cables used for velodyne
  • Crossover set at 80 hz in receiver
Room Size:
~20x27' open ceiling, open floor plan.

Disclaimer - I'm new to this, enjoy it, and am very interested, however, I am far from competent in the subject.

I was given the opportunity to borrow/ audition / try-out a Velodyne DD15+ from a friend who recently upgraded to a DD18+ to go along with a pair of Apogees. I delightfully agreed as I was already interested in potentially buying the DD15+ from him.
The outgoing subwoofer(s) was a Sony SAW 3800 15” that was a carry over from my College partying days. Before my wife had objected, I had two of these sitting in the corner. They served their purpose (being loud) but when compared to any higher end woofer, they are terribly distorted and roll off pretty hard at the bottom end.




After listening to the Velo for a day or so I decided to try out the user interface.
Opening the box, you find a nice kit that even includes white gloves.

With the mic setup on a coffee table near my listening area, I hooked the sub to my alienware M11X and ran the software. (with no cd rom on my laptop, I simply transferred the files to a usb drive, later installing them onto the laptop.) My primary laptop is a macbook, howveer, without running windows on the mac the software isn’t compatible.



I began by using running “auto EQ” and found that it works really well. It’s odd as I anticipated that it would have had to add power way down low but it did not. It did add quite a bit of gain in the 100hz area. (perhaps the built in “base” curve provides additional power down low?)
Note that the at ~83 db, the output is nearly flat all the way down to 15hz.


Then I tried using “manual EQ” I had a low spot at 25 hz so I added tons of power in this area but for whatever reason was unable to get rid of the dip at 25hz. I began to question the software or mic at this point as it was VERY obvious that I was adding more output down low, however, the software just wasn’t seeing it. With a scosche SPL1000 meter riding shotgun I confirmed that the db reading on screen was not in line with reality. (adding power easily resulted in an SPL of over 100db.)
Although I was not getting a “fault” indicating that the volume level was too loud, my guess is that the overall ouput from 15hz to 200 hz was for the most part greater than what mic could “read” resulting in an unrealistic reading – OR – the velodyne is simply an awesome sub along with the 4 8” woofers in the F-30s pulling their weight (for the most part)

I continued with trying out the “self EQ” where no test track was playing. This is basically where the subwoofer plays a built in sweep and adjusts through auto EQ accordingly.
The EQ tries to correct an 80-100 roll off, but the outuput just isn’t there. This is not concerning to me..

Again, the output is nearly flat all the way down to 15hz.
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3
MAX SPL

Using a Scosche SPL 1000 place at 1M from the subwoofer I found the following.

Track: Awolnation “sail”

Settings: Loud

110.4db
http://s223.photobucket.com/user/Quicktime_GT/media/Velodyne%20DD15%20plus/A45CB806-38EA-4E89-A870-5A49A322B46A.jpg.html ] [/URL]


http://s223.photobucket.com/user/Qu...B75D3D9D-3C4A-4B08-A773-3432EFE85745.jpg.html


I was able to get it to read 115.xx prior to this, but can’t remember how far away the meter was (obviously closer)

http://s223.photobucket.com/user/Qu...53D863EE-7599-4E0E-8F6A-F59FBE4EDF47.jpg.html


During this, there is really no audible distortion. The velodyne does an excellent job of controlling this. What you find, however, is that at a point adding power doesn’t result in any added output. I suppose this is where the “DD” steps in and controls distortion.

Although there may have been more output available, the woofer excursion is ridiculous at this point so I was afraid to add any more volume.
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Klipsch F-30s


I unhooked the subwoofer just to see what the capabilities of the Klipsch F-30s were and found the following:
http://s223.photobucket.com/user/Quicktime_GT/media/Velodyne DD15 plus/F-3sonly.png.html


For a cheap speaker, they don’t too too bad. There needs to be some EQ corrections made, but I don’t have the ability to do so at this time. I will likely replace these with a pair of RF-82s soon.
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Sony SAW3800
http://s223.photobucket.com/user/Qu...49DF821B-F298-40CB-8DD6-FD798A0CF654.jpg.html

For comparison, I pulled out the sony SAW3800 15” woofer and hooked it up. I left the velodyne woofer hooked to the computer and ran the test sweeps through the sony subwoofer. On Screen “through” the velodyne, I could see what the sony was doing:
http://s223.photobucket.com/user/Quicktime_GT/media/Velodyne DD15 plus/sonySAW380015.png.html

The graph shows the sony rolling off at probably 22hz down to nearly an unaudible level at 15hz. At 20hz, the output is a hair over 80hz. Assuming the audible level at 20hz is 75db, this is only 5db above that (which agrees with what you hear.)

In comparison of sheer output, the sony acutally does quite well at roughly 100db. I do not have a “max output” reading from the Sony, but can say that it does quite well at ferequencies that are in the neighborhood of 30-70hz. Adding the second Sony results in an output at certain frequencies that although dirty is likely greater than the Velodynes capabilities in SPL.

In terms of sound quality, there is no comparison. You don’t really know what you’re missing until you hear a nice subwoofer. Although the sony(s) were able to create large amounts of noise, what you find is that the sound they’re making seems to be the same “note” in all conditions. The amount of distortion coming from the Sony Speakers is very evident after hearing the DD15+
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the plot thickens...

Based upon my description of a static / crackle sound, Velodyne thinks my amplifier is bad. A third party repair shop uknowingly agreed -

sigh..
Velodyne has had major amplifier problems. That is why I no longer use a Velodyne servo, mine blew up too.

They have nice SQ... when they work.

You won't be able to get to a ULF Score of 0-200 or SI 6+ with them though, they simply aren't loud enough and cost too much.
Am I missing something or did it have to bring everything down to 83dB in order to EQ itself "flat" to 15Hz?

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice, if gimmicky and horrendously overpriced sub, but a DIY sub 1/8 the price could equal or best it.

edit: Apologies if that seems adversarial. Just an opinion, and the lingering disbelief that Velodyne still sells that line of subs without bursting out in a "Mwah ha ha ha" every time one is sold.
Am I missing something or did it have to bring everything down to 83dB in order to EQ itself "flat" to 15Hz?

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice, if gimmicky and horrendously overpriced sub, but a DIY sub 1/8 the price could equal or best it.

edit: Apologies if that seems adversarial. Just an opinion, and the lingering disbelief that Velodyne still sells that line of subs without bursting out in a "Mwah ha ha ha" every time one is sold.

Ehh not really..

In this graph, at 20hz levels were brought down 9 "units," where as levels were brought up ~5 "units" at 100hz. 83db is simply the level of which the test was conducted at that time.

I purchased this sub from a friend for $2000 - he updgraded to a DD18+ ... I wouldn't give the $4499 they ask for them new, but I felt like 2K was a decent buy - I'm not confident that I could build a DIY sub that would outpeform it for 2k.
I'm not confident that I could build a DIY sub that would outpeform it for 2k.
I'm confident that you could 2x for ~$1100 and 3-4x the performance for only $1400-1700 (although you'd have to forego the piano-gloss, for something slightly uglier looking...)
The sound quality of these Velodyne subs is said to be extremely high. I'm sure you could get more output for less if you went DIY, but when it comes to sound quality, that's where I wonder most. Where are all the publication reviews - side by side comparisons - of DIY vs commercial subs?
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