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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK Guys,

Been assembling a Home Theater system for over a year now. Have Mitsubishi 55", Yamaha RX-V1 receiver, JVC XV-F80 DVD player.

Coming: Rocket 750's, 300's, 200 for speakers.

Room size 18'X 22'. Almost all HT user.


Want one amped sub.

BTW do amped subs have to be volume adjusted separately or do they go up and down with the receiver's volume?

It would be nice to match the Rosewood finish of the Rockets but not critical because I have a perfect corner for a good sized cube that will be visually hidden.


Don't want a tall one of any finish, don't have a spot for a second sub and DON'T want to wait any longer.


Given HT use I'm looking for good air movement and thump down low yet clear and undistorted.


I've been recently focused on the Velodyne HGS-18 and have found them new for $2,100 or version 1 for $15-1,600. (difference to version 2=?).

It sounds like a good choice yet I have heard to look at smaller (VTF-3, VMPS, SVS). I'm not buying that smaller will really give me the same movement, depth and accuracy as the HGS-18.


Am I going to be OK with the HGS-18 or can others Truly do the same job?

Don't be jivin me Willis!
 

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The Paradigm Servo-15 might warrant consideration, which I believe has a "Rosenut" veneer option, and it might have ample output for an 18'x22' room.


Michael
 

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The Triad Platinum PowerSub is right in the same price category as the Velodyne. Either of these subs will outclass the Paradigm Servo-15. The Velodyne may have a bit more headroom that the Triad, however, the Triad is more articulate.
 

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I have no idea how they would integrate with your speakers, but the MartinLogan Descent is a pretty daggone good sub... it's more than your budget, but its little brother the Depth is in your range and might be worth an audition.
 

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 Acoustic Visions or Rutledge Audio could build you a sub with whatever finish you want based on an Adire Tempest, Adire Tumult or Stryke AV15. You'll have to discuss with them if you want to go acoustic suspension or bass reflex. If you choose a bass reflex design Tumult will have to be a passive radiator, AV15 likely will too and the Tempest can use a port or passive radiator.



Remember there are two components to how much air you can move. Surface area of the driver (Sd), and how far the driver can travel (Peak to Peak Xmax). Multiple the to together and you get volume displaced (Vd). Adire's 18" Maelstrom can displace 3L. The Tumult (15") can displace 5.1L.


Also remember the HGS series have a servo feedback circuit that will limit output when the sub starts to distort (prevents THD from going over 2.5% or something like that). Some people like what this does, others feel is compresses the source when played at higher levels.


If you haven't seen this take a look:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2001.html


Done properly an 18" cube acoustic suspension Tumult will outgun a HGS18 (sound quality and output). Put a Tumult in an appropriate bass reflex design and it will have a major output advantage (especially in the last octave).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Dustin B
Acoustic Visions or Rutledge Audio could build you a sub with whatever finish you want based on an Adire Tempest, Adire Tumult or Stryke AV15. You'll have to discuss with them if you want to go acoustic suspension or bass reflex. If you choose a bass reflex design Tumult will have to be a passive radiator, AV15 likely will too and the Tempest can use a port or passive radiator.



Remember there are two components to how much air you can move. Surface area of the driver (Sd), and how far the driver can travel (Peak to Peak Xmax). Multiple the to together and you get volume displaced (Vd). Adire's 18" Maelstrom can displace 3L. The Tumult (15") can displace 5.1L.


Also remember the HGS series have a servo feedback circuit that will limit output when the sub starts to distort (prevents THD from going over 2.5% or something like that). Some people like what this does, others feel is compresses the source when played at higher levels.


If you haven't seen this take a look:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2001.html


Done properly an 18" cube acoustic suspension Tumult will outgun a HGS18 (sound quality and output). Put a Tumult in an appropriate bass reflex design and it will have a major output advantage (especially in the last octave).
Dustin,

Clearly you are way beyond my knowledge. Didn't quite follow all the technical stuff. Have seen that link you provided and honestly it's a big reason I'm looking so hard at the Velodyne HGS-18.


Not really interested in a kit. (WAF) She thinks I'm obsessed enough with just all the research/reading I'm doing.


Bottom line is it sounds like you (all) think I can't go wrong if I can get the HGS-18 at the right price.


Still want to know, though, what is the difference between Version 1 and 2.
 

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No doubt, if you got the money the HGS18 is a great sub. But to clarify, I'm not talking about kits. With your budget those two places will ship you a finished product. Same amount of work required to set it up after you get it as the HGS18.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Dustin B
No doubt, if you got the money the HGS18 is a great sub. But to clarify, I'm not talking about kits. With your budget those two places will ship you a finished product. Same amount of work required to set it up after you get it as the HGS18.
Dustin,

Nice web page.

I'm 90% convinced now on the Velodyne HGS 18 but will check those sites again.


TV,

I wonder how bad the hiss is with the version 1. Looks like about a $5-600 difference bettween that and the version 2. ($1,500 vs $2,100)
 

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>>>TV,

I wonder how bad the hiss is with the version 1. Looks like about a $5-600 difference bettween that and the version 2. ($1,500 vs $2,100)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by TV
>>>TV,

I wonder how bad the hiss is with the version 1. Looks like about a $5-600 difference bettween that and the version 2. ($1,500 vs $2,100)
 

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Quote:
Also remember the HGS series have a servo feedback circuit that will limit output when the sub starts to distort (prevents THD from going over 2.5% or something like that). Some people like what this does, others feel is compresses the source when played at higher levels.
As a owner of a FSR18 I can say that the volume levels required to have output limited are well above what any sane person would want to experience. I've actually popped drywall nails at volumes well below this sub's capability. The main purpose of the servo feedback is to minimize distortion. Many subs have distortion levels in the percent range, whereas the Velodynes are an order of magnitude less.


The only real drawback to Velodyne subs is their cost. The shipping box on the FSR18s is pretty lame also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by BizarroTerl
As a owner of a FSR18 I can say that the volume levels required to have output limited are well above what any sane person would want to experience. I've actually popped drywall nails at volumes well below this sub's capability. The main purpose of the servo feedback is to minimize distortion. Many subs have distortion levels in the percent range, whereas the Velodynes are an order of magnitude less.


The only real drawback to Velodyne subs is their cost. The shipping box on the FSR18s is pretty lame also.
Thanks Biz,

Good to hear that. I was worried/wondering if there would be any worries about the Velodyne cutting out. Found a place nearby thanks to Bigwally where I can preview the HGS-18. Only heard the 12" so far. Now up to 92% convinced that I'll go with the 18".


You guys are awesome!
 

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ChapDog, don't go for the used series 1. At that price esp without warranty $1,500 isn't a deal (as I mentioned earlier I read on this and other forums folks able to get much better deals from authorized dealers with the series 2 in the market). The only noise I have with mine so far is a very faint 'buzz' followed by a light 'thud' at turn 'on' & 'off' and while it's 'on' if I stick my ears to within 6" I can hear a very faint swishing sound which I was told is from the servo. FWIW mine never have the amp problem (which I understand is part of the series 2 upgrade) other series 1 owners experienced but I switched mine 'off' when not being used (which is lots of times since I only use it with HT, something I haven't done much esp since I got back to stereo music couple years back).


PF
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by pmf
ChapDog, don't go for the used series 1. At that price esp without warranty $1,500 isn't a deal (as I mentioned earlier I read on this and other forums folks able to get much better deals from authorized dealers with the series 2 in the market). The only noise I have with mine so far is a very faint 'buzz' followed by a light 'thud' at turn 'on' & 'off' and while it's 'on' if I stick my ears to within 6" I can hear a very faint swishing sound which I was told is from the servo. FWIW mine never have the amp problem (which I understand is part of the series 2 upgrade) other series 1 owners experienced but I switched mine 'off' when not being used (which is lots of times since I only use it with HT, something I haven't done much esp since I got back to stereo music couple years back).


PF
PMF,

The cheapest I have found is $2,100 (new but on the web). I called one local dealer in Pleasanton and they wanted full price ($3,500).

I'm hoping to check out a dealer in San Jose this week but not sure they can approach 2k. We'll see and if they can including warrenty I'll be a happy camper.
 

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Quote:
As a owner of a FSR18 I can say that the volume levels required to have output limited are well above what any sane person would want to experience.
It depends on the size of the room,and if you like to listen at reference[which could be as loud as 115db from the sub].

I only heard the FSR-15 and it's limiter came into play way before full reference,I expect the FSR-18 would do better.

Just for a clarification the sub wouldn't "cut out" it would just won't be louder,and yes these are very clean sounding subs.

However I would contact Acoustic-Visison,and order either a Tumult,or AV-15[Stryke] sub with enclosure and amp built in.For the money you're ready to spend these will be simply a better performers all around,quiet possibly the last sub you'll ever buy.;)
 

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Chapdog,


Regarding the sub volume, if you have an HT receiver then you will be using the LFE or Sub Out connection on your receiver to your sub. You initially want to calibrate all speakers including the subwoofer to a reference level either using internal test tones if available in your receiver or via an external test tone source like Avia or Video Essentials. Once you have calibrated your speakers and sub, you do not want to use the volume control on the sub--use the receiver volume control and/or separate menu options on the receiver to alter sub output.


Regards,

Will
 

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How are the Definitive Technolgy supercubes?


And REL and M&K... which is best?
 

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Every product no matter how good has room for improvement.

Even reference products such as Velodynes HGS-18.

The HGS-18 Series 1 pretty much evolved into series 2 due to the fact that there had been scores of changes during its product life mainly with the amplification unit.


Towards the end (if you can call it that) of its run, the series 1 had undergone so many improvements that it actually behaved differently to earlier models in the production chain. Therefore, it was eventually decided to use the series 2 moniker to single out newer models. Its quite posible that folks who bought late series one models do in fact have series 2 spec.

The low level noise associated with Servo powered subs is actually more whooshing than humming. This is quite normal as is the subtle pop each time you switch the sub off and on and is caused by the accelerometer.


While there may be a handful of others that can match and perhaps even surpass the HGS-18 in depth and total dB output, as an all rounder (sound quality is also of immense importantance) , many, including myself, believe the HGS-18 is one of those products that all others are judged.


Along with the HGS-15, the HGS-18 one of only a handful of subs that pass the tough new THX Ultra 2 spec. As far as I'm aware, the HGS pairs distortion figures were so much lower than the THX threshold that it was something of a milstone.
 

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These Velodyne´s certainly don´t come cheap. How doe the other subs from the manufacturers I mentioned earlier sound? I´m thinking of a def. tech supercube but someone in the forum said they were shockingly bad.. very boomy??
 
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