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Quote:
Originally Posted by levy07 /forum/post/12866613


which is better? from this article it looks like vertical center is best or 3 bookshelves.


http://www.audioholics.com/education...peaker-designs

Article is right. Horizontal designs, due to their nature do not disperse sound like a vertical design, usually you also have barriers in the lower part of a horizontal placed center, while not many barriers in a vertical placed speaker.


There are many threads and articles about this subject, don't remember the specifics, but have not seen a single comment denying this info.
 

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All arrays have wider, smoother dispersion at 90deg to the array axis. That's why (almost) all better speakers are vertically arrayed. Horizontal arrays are made, in general, only to placate users for esthetic reasons. Unfortunately, their ubiquity has left the incorrect impression that such speakers are ideal for center channel use.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/12866860


All arrays have wider, smoother dispersion at 90deg to the array axis. That's why (almost) all better speakers are vertically arrayed. Horizontal arrays are made, in general, only to placate users for esthetic reasons. Unfortunately, their ubiquity has left the incorrect impression that such speakers are ideal for center channel use.

Very true, almost like the *requirement* that a performance car have a spoiler. And while most serious performance cars don't have spoilers, they're prolific in the world of Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, and even those SMOKIN' HOT V-6 Mustangs.



Some horizontal centers have vertically-aligned mids and tweeters, and other than some comb filtering from the horizontal woofers, they work fine. Also, I believe center placement and room acoustics bugger up the center sound worse than fallen-over d'Appolitos, unless you have listeners who sit far off axis. Put a vertically-aligned center on the floor, and it will sound like ass.


Vertical is generally better, though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli /forum/post/12866960


Very true, almost like the *requirement* that a performance car have a spoiler. And while most serious performance cars don't have spoilers, they're prolific in the world of Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, and even those SMOKIN' HOT V-6 Mustangs.


.

Love the comparison, lots of rice and one hamburger....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli /forum/post/12866960


Very true, almost like the *requirement* that a performance car have a spoiler. And while most serious performance cars don't have spoilers, they're prolific in the world of Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, and even those SMOKIN' HOT V-6 Mustangs.

Excellent analogy.

Quote:
Some horizontal centers have vertically-aligned mids and tweeters, and other than some comb filtering from the horizontal woofers, they work fine. Also, I believe center placement and room acoustics bugger up the center sound worse than fallen-over d'Appolitos, unless you have listeners who sit far off axis. Put a vertically-aligned center on the floor, and it will sound like ass.

Of course, unless the "vertically-aligned center" was designed for floor-standing. Misapplication of a competent design is as bad as using an incompetent one. Nonetheless, over the span of the last two years as we have discussed this issue over and over, it has become apparent that the general perception remains that a center should be a horizontal array and there's little awareness of the subtleties of design.

Quote:
Vertical is generally better, though.

In general, yes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
the sales guy for a local HT store said there is no such thing as he proceeded to try and sell me the latest horizontal center and matching fronts. guess he should do his homework.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by levy07 /forum/post/12870426


the sales guy for a local HT store said there is no such thing as he proceeded to try and sell me the latest horizontal center and matching fronts. guess he should do his homework.

In case we've forgotten, the term "LCR" stands for "left, center, right." Ideally, the center should be identical, and positioned at the same height, and the same distance from the listener. The bastardized "center channel" speakers positioned horizontally came from the need to fit a center under or above a video display...a compromise.


Two words: Acoustically transparent screen.


Okay, three words.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by levy07 /forum/post/12874654


lucky for me, i use a projector. now for that transparent screen.

Seroiusly, it's the best solution. With 1080p front projectors under $2000 and approaching $1000, and a $2000 acoustically-transparent screen, you're at the price of a cheap 42" plasma from three years ago.


Leaving more money for *real* speakers, of course.
 

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Horizontal centers are an aesthetic compromise, and also a compromise because of the basic laws of physics in that light doesn't travel through speakers, so obviously you can't put a big vertical speaker in front of your TV. For the best matching you want identical speakers across the front. They don't make left and right speakers horizontal, and for good reason.
 

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I posted this earlier in the M&K thread.


>>>

Dual M&K 750 Center speakers

I was thinking of adding another 750 center channel to my setup. Currently running 5 * 750, 2 * 550 and a mx150 Sub. With so much content up converted from 2.0 to 7.1 via my Onkyo 805, I'm starting to think more center cant hurt.


I'm toying with the idea of adding an Arcam FMJ P35/38 and another 750. The big question is, what' the best configuration? Vertical or Horizontal stack? The current center is bolted to the wall at ear level, about 12ft from the sitting pos. The left and right are a few inches higher ( bottom of LR is 3" above center top)


Anyone tried anything similar? Usage is 95% HT. Music is only enjoyed at party time, or doing the house work.

 

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Is it alright to turn the center channel upside down? Would it mess with the direction of the sound. I have 3 identical psb b25s as my front soundstage and my center is vertical upside down. I cant seem to get a good vertical image from the center on top of my plasma. I just got it though so im still working out some angling and break in
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by levy07 /forum/post/12866613


which is better? from this article it looks like vertical center is best or 3 bookshelves.


http://www.audioholics.com/education...peaker-designs

Of course!! The only reason that horizontal centers are made is to pander to those who need to place it under displays or who are uninformed about correct design. That there are no competent horizontal arrays for main speakers should tell you that it is a sub-optimal configuration.


The three front speakers should, ideally, be identical and one should strive to approximate that as much as possible.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goobered /forum/post/14036176


I posted this earlier in the M&K thread.


>>>

Dual M&K 750 Center speakers

I was thinking of adding another 750 center channel to my setup. Currently running 5 * 750, 2 * 550 and a mx150 Sub. With so much content up converted from 2.0 to 7.1 via my Onkyo 805, I'm starting to think more center cant hurt.


I'm toying with the idea of adding an Arcam FMJ P35/38 and another 750. The big question is, what' the best configuration? Vertical or Horizontal stack? The current center is bolted to the wall at ear level, about 12ft from the sitting pos. The left and right are a few inches higher ( bottom of LR is 3" above center top)


Anyone tried anything similar? Usage is 95% HT. Music is only enjoyed at party time, or doing the house work.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngho /forum/post/15146999


Dual centers bad. So saith Tomlinson Holman (the TH in THX).

Mostly true, but many, many years ago, Tom discovered you got limited vertical directivity if you took a pair of Large Advents and stacked one on top of the other, with the top one upside-down. This put the two tweeters close. This is one reason early THX LCRs used two tweeters. Two tweeters introduced many other problems, though, and I don't think Tom would agree with some of his beliefs from the early '80s now. Hey, Tom's an old friend. I'll just ask him...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli /forum/post/15147064


Mostly true, but many, many years ago, Tom discovered you got limited vertical directivity if you took a pair of Large Advents and stacked one on top of the other, with the top one upside-down. This put the two tweeters close. This is one reason early THX LCRs used two tweeters. Two tweeters introduced many other problems, though, and I don't think Tom would agree with some of his beliefs from the early '80s now. Hey, Tom's an old friend. I'll just ask him...

Sorry, I was just thinking of his most recent book on surround sound. Please let us know what he says now!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by klankymen /forum/post/12870955


Two words: Expensive as hell.


Oh wait that was 3 also

Not really. I made my 120" x 67" AT screen (same AT material SMX and others use but I bought it direct from a fabric company) with a 1.5" x 4" black velvet border (composite 1x4's from Home Depot and high quality black velvet off ebay), for under $300 and quite frankly, everyone that has seen it thinks its a professionally made screen. There are times I still can't believe I have this size and quality screen for so little money.

I am so glad I listened to the advice from people here on various threads suggesting the AT screen and hidden speaker placement.
 
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