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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got my DST-3000. I can get the two uhf digital stations with the ATV-100 amplified FM/VHF/UHF Rat Shack indoor antenna. They come in at around 40(15-abc) and 55-60 (31-fox) strength, but with a lot of trial and error. First off I need to get the VHF channels. They come in at around 6 and 12 strength, that's it. I understand that most digital channels are UHF, except for Chicago and Cleveland. What can I do? Is there any better VHF indoor antennas? I'm thinking about trying out the Double Bow Tie for UHF instead too. I do have a storage closet directly behind my TV. I was thinking of trying to put a large antenna in there if nothing else works. An additional note is that I don't get any of the analog stations clear, but I do get a digital channel at 5-1 also. (The actual digital ABC station is at 15-1.) An outside antenna is out of the question, and I have no clue if it would be possible to get a line to the attic.


-Still yet to see actual HDTV on my set. Of course ABC didn't have any on last night and I couldn't get CBS or NBC (VHF channels.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I forgot to add that I am almost exactly 20 miles from the transmitters and I live in a very flat area (Cleveland.)


I will appreciate any info, I NEED HD football this weekend!


[This message has been edited by Wooderson (edited 09-28-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Wooderson (edited 09-28-2001).]
 

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Wooderson,


What kind of construction is your house? A lot of newer houses and condos use chicken wire and sprayed stucco. The chicken wire acts as a Faraday’s cage; very effective at blocking electromagnetic waves (like TV signals!). Likewise, many houses and apartments use foil-backed insulation or tin/metal roofs. All these are great from a construction point of view, but lousy for radio wave reception.


I assume you've looked at www.antennaweb.org to figure out just where your local stations are. Theoretically, you should place your rabbit ears perpendicular to the direction of a line between your house and the broadcast signal that you are interested in. In practice, you might want to try to get the antenna near a window on the side of the house facing the broadcast tower. Play around with antenna placement, both turning it and moving the antenna around. Indoor reception is notoriously screwy. You may also want to try making your telescoping rabbit ears shorter if you're interested in a high band VHF signal (channels 7-12).


Gotta ask, why is an outdoor antenna completely out of the question? You have some pretty specific rights according to the FCC. Don't let a rogue homeowners' association trample your rights! You may at least want to try an unobtrusive outdoor antenna on your balcony/patio.


Jim


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Let me get this straight, this show is hi-def and 5.1, but my local affiliate makes it crappy NTSC and mono?!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My condo is about 11 years old. I don't believe it is that construction, but it could be. I got better reception with my 32 inch panasonic for analog with regular old vhs/bowtie combo than I get now with the amplified antenna (although I didn't try to tune in any of the analog stations.) It seems that only the UHF channels got any better with the amplified antenna. I get decent reception on an old b&w tv I have in my kitchen (my hdtv is in my basement.) I have about 40 ft of coaxial and couldn't really pick up any channels stronger than I could in my basement when going up to the first floor. I put it near my front window (the window most direct to the transmitters, but nowhere neer a straight line) and also the large sliding patio doors in the back. I was hoping for an answer similar to the Silver Sensor, but for VHF. Or at least a story about how someone put an outdoor antenna in their closet and I now has perfect VHF reception. I really don't want anything out on my porch if I don't have to. I had to sign a waiver for a sat dish which I'm awaiting feedback and that will take up a lot of space. If forced to, I would rather put the antenna in the attic if I have to start running line, etc.
 

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The four major HDTV stations in Vegas will all be on VHF, so I need a good VHF antenna too. My Radio Shack powered rabbit ear antenna almost does the job, but it can't pull in all stations well, and it can't simultaneously pull in the two main groups of stations separated by about 15 degrees without changing its directional dial. I need a VHF antenna that is directional but not too directional.


One possibility is the Channel Master Stealth 3010 antenna and a Channel Master 7777 antenna pre-amplifier , a combo that has worked for many here though it has failed for some. If you're definitely going to mount in the attic, then you could go for an ugly antenna, like perhaps the Antennacraft AC9, though apparently not many here have tried that one.



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Abdul
Philips 60PP9601, join the Philips_HDTV discussion group

Dish 5000 + HDTV Modulator, DirecTV + 128 hour SVR-2000 TiVo

HTPC: Duron 750, K7 Master, Radeon LE, AccessDTV, Cybermail, Audiophile
It's not HD. It's HBO.
s>


[This message has been edited by Abdul Jalib (edited 09-28-2001).]
 

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I agree with Abdul's recommendations. The amplifier in most amplified indoor antennas is pretty crappy. By comparison, a separate preamp from Channelmaster or Winegard can be pretty nice.


You are familiar with the idea of garbage in, garbage out, right? If reflections off your interior walls are causing multipath, a preamp is only going to intensify that multipath. If you aren't willing to set up an antenna outside, your best bet may be to put an outdoor antenna in your attic.


Jim


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Let me get this straight, this show is hi-def and 5.1, but my local affiliate makes it crappy NTSC and mono?!
 

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I think you answered your own question. Nothing that you use inside your house will make much difference. Did you ever hear the saying: You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh-t? An indoor amplified antenna will just amplify noise. I suggest an antenna such as the Terk TV-50 or TV-55 (HD). I tlooks like a white stick which will not offend homeowner associations, etc, which is probably what you are worried about. This thing can be mounted in many different spots, and if done neatly, no one will likely know its an antenna. You will want to, however hold it up and try it in different spots, angles until you find the best placement for it. When that spot is found, it only requires 2 screws for mounting. If you follow this, it will work better then anything you put inside your house. Good luck.
 

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Gotta disagree with Mr Hookup on the Terk 50 or 55. The only bigger ripoff than one of these is a Terk 60! Seriously, I had the misfortune to purchase a Terk 50 for $100. It wasn't worth a third of that price.


Do you know why those antennas from the 50's and 60's look the way they do? It isn't because they're pretty, it's because those designs work. If you are interested in a Terk, the Terk 35 is sort of like a real antenna. A Winegard GS-2000 is pretty decent if you want a pretty looking antenna with adequete performance. http://www.winegard.com/products/vhf..._for_home.html

You could also try the Channelmaster model 3010, the Stealthtenna: http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/s1.htm

Or you could try a beastly full-sized antenna in your attic.


I would caution you to do a search on AVS forum for Terk before spending money on that particular brand. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


Jim


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Let me get this straight, this show is hi-def and 5.1, but my local affiliate makes it crappy NTSC and mono?!


[This message has been edited by JimboG (edited 09-29-2001).]
 

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I hate to ruin your weekend. Ch 2 5 and 31 in Cleveland are good dt stations and you can receive them ok in lake county. The CBS station WOIO is bad. I can't get it with a 30' outside ant with a rotor. It is so bad, Detroit digital ch 62 comes in better on good weather days. We have been complaining to the station mgt to no avail over the last year to fix their digital signal.. I live in Mentor about 10 miles east of your condo
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I put the "little antenna that could" in my 2nd floor guest bedroom. I could get the UHF channels at 100 and finally pulled in 2-nbc at about 30, but it was in and out. All I could get was 17 strength from 10-cbs. I'm going to try a big ugly outdoor antenna from inside today. The fact that WOIO's signal is weak is a big disappointment, that was the one channel I got HDTV for because I wanted HD sports. Sadly, I think my porch faces the wrong direction (NE) for Directv and HDnet too. (Unless true north helps.) I'm going to keep trying though.


[This message has been edited by Wooderson (edited 09-29-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Wooderson:

I had to sign a waiver for a sat dish ...
Uh, no you didn't. Federal Law says you can install a dish on your patio whenever you want, right away, without getting a permit or permission from anyone. Federal Law always trumps state/local laws, and silly HOA regs.


VHF antennas are tough to do indooors, as the elements tend to be very large. An advange of VHF is that line of sight is a lot less important, as the longer wavelengths diffract around obstacles much more easily, and multipath is less of a problem as the longer wavelengths need much bigger objects to reflect them.


'last time I was an apartment dweller, I had a small RS VHF antenna on the bedroom balcony. Worked pretty well (much better picture than the cable system), but I had line of sight with the transmitters on Mt. Wilson


------------------

You have a right to install OTA and dish antennas on property under your control.


See http://www.fcc.gov/csb/facts/otard.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here is my update (a little long.) I went all around the local area talking to different people and even found a guy from the local hi-end specialty TV store that lived within a quarter of a mile from me and said that he couldn't pull in any VHF channels. Everyone said that I was SOL. I was determined to not give up, so in my desperation I bought a Terk 20. I couldn't just sit there with no signal. Well after 20 minutes I pulled in WOIO-DT with the antenna sitting on top door of my second floor guest room facing out the window with coaxial running from the basement. (Not the best aesthetically, but I'm a single guy so I could care less.) I pulled in a 100 strength on the two VHF channels a steady 50 on NBC-2 and a 70 on WOIO. It was great for the first 30 minutes with minimum drop out. It started to get worse later. From what I hear on this forum is that their DT channel has some problems. The first HD program I got to watch was this game. The PQ was awesome, too bad the game lacked any excitement. I watched Touched By An Angel that night for about an 40 minutes before I left to go out. It dropped out a couple times, but not as much as late in the game, plus I switched between that and Forest Gump. Today the signal strength is steady at 72, but I can't seem to get much but broken pictures, I even get what seems to be half ABC and half NBC. I'm not sure what is going on.


Jtighe,


Who do I complain to at WOIO? I'll make any correspondence necessary. Why would you even have a DTV channel that didn't work properly?


BarryO,


The waiver had to do more with the fact that I would have to move it and take responsibility of it if it flew into someone else porch and move it if they needed to refinish my deck, etc. I believe that is within their rights. I talked to someone previously that did put up a dish and they fined them 200 dollars or something extremely silly like that. I would rather not rock the ship if I don't have to. I'm a single 26 year old male while the majority of the other owners are slightly older couples and families. They probably think I'm a little rich kid or something (which is very far from the truth.) Life sometimes isn't fair, but you often have to play by other peoples' guidelines. If I have to fight for my rights I will.
 

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Any updates on getting the VHF signals? I live in Brunswick and live in an apartment so I would be very interested to know. I was looking at trying the antennacraft ac-9 and putting it on my deck, but I don't know if that will work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


-Jeff
 
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