VHS transfer NTSC and PAL to the same disc ?

I am not sure about the mixing of NTSC and pal on one DVD but I'd be interested to know how you get on with the recording of NTSC videos.


I am in the UK and have som NTSC videos and as far as I understand it, my DVD recorder (DMR-HS2) does not like the Pseudo conversion that my VCR does of NTSC output. It records in black and white.


I think you may need a Standards convertor - but this may be inaccurate as I do not know what DVD-R you are getting and what standards apply in Aus.


If anyone knows more please share!


Lee

Some models of stand alone DVD recorders can do both PAL and NTSC. These models will record whatever you input. Input NTSC and it records NTSC. Input PAL and it records PAL.


Some of these models will do conversion but only on playback. So you can for instance input a PAL VHS and record a PAL DVD but then if you need to the DVD recorder will convert the PAL DVD to NTSC format on playback.


I know most of the Philips models can do this and the new JVC units might also be capable of this since I know they will convert on playback which would indicate that they can do either when recording ... but yet to get a confirmation on that.


However it is best to keep a DVD disc either all NTSC or all PAL ... I would not mix video standards on a single DVD disc.


As for the problem recording NTSC to a DVD recorder when in Europe ... most PAL countries have PAL VHS VCR's that can play back a NTSC VHS video on a PAL TV but almost always these PAL VHS VCR's do a conversion known as PAL60 ... this is a psydo type of NTSC to PAL conversion that works on most (if not all) modern PAL televisions but most devices (such as stand alone DVD recorders or computer video capture cards) cannot record a PAL60 signal.


The solution?


1.) A true multisystem VHS VCR that plays PAL as PAL and plays NTSC as NTSC


2.) A true multisystem VHS VCR with built-in coverter than can play PAL as PAL and can play NTSC as NTSC but can also do NTSC to PAL or PAL to NTSC ... these do full conversion ... none of that PAL60 garbage. NTSC will be converted to a true PAL signal and a PAL signal will be converted to a true NTSC signal.


The first kind are cheaper because the built-in converter adds a lot to the price.

Take a look here:

http://www.world-import.com/


This is a US based website that carries multi-system video equipment.


If you want a conversion VHS VCR then your best bet is probably the Samsung SV-7000W


It isn't a S-VHS VCR though it can do Quasi S-VHS Playback and if I recall correctly it even has S-Video output but this is based on past models ... not 100% sure this current model has S-Video as that website doesn't mention it.


I have an old 8 Head Hi-Fi Stereo TOSHIBA multi-system VHS VCR. It doesn't do conversion but can record/play NTSC or PAL and it is the best quality VHS VCR I have ever seen (better with VHS than my JVC 5000 series S-VHS VCR) but I don't know if the current line of TOSHIBA multi-system VHS VCR's are as nice and then again no conversion.


Also don't let that website fool you into getting the CMD-850 ... I have one I bought elsewhere and it sucks donkey balls. It creates a de-interlaced image with "jaggies" that is really annoying. I doubt the newer CMD-950 is any better.


I have never seen the Samsung SV-7000W in action but a friend has it and is very happy with the quality of it. I should note that he had previously had the cheaper Samsung which sounds similiar but he said that the quality sucked on it compared to the SV-7000W

Ugh, watch out for the 5000W. I bought it with high hopes and it's been a pretty major disappointment. First one was DOA, second one will work for a while then develop a strange snow/"comet" streaking pattern over the picture that only a professional cleaning will fix, and only for a while. Unfortunately, the extremely short warranty means nothing could really be done about it. I've since read other reports of almost these exact same symptoms coming into play after a while so it doesn't appear to be just my machine or tapes or my usage patterns.


I've been quite disappointed with how little use it got before it's become all but unusable, especially given how (generally) good Samsung's electronics of late have become. I'm hoping to give it one more ultra-good cleaning (Well, pay for someone to do it and get my remaining PAL tapes transferred to DVD "for now" and hopefully find a better solution.

Well, here's another user then who has experienced the "comet-tails" of which you speak

On most vcr's, this usually signals that the heads need to be cleaned. With this unit however, I knew the heads were clean because I had done so very carefully as always not long before this first ocurred. Strange thing is: I tried a series of rewinding and forwarding longer length tapes

and then played some back initiating a "pause"/"play" and "pause/play" and this snowiness/cometing disappeared altogether. I would give that a try at least J.

Of course, then the same thing reappeared just recently .. so I tried the long forward and let rewind. Then forwarded from the beginning about 20 minutes into the tape and did the play/pause repeat routine for a couple times .. solved again!

Could be a general misalignment on these units or just cheaply made heads .. I really don't know, but you're right... It is not exactly dependable.

Anyone know of another VCR manufacturer here in the States that makes a multi-format machine?

Zenith, I've only a handful of PAL tapes, but they are ones that I really care about! Beyond those, you're absolutely right, I have very little need for a multi-format vcr.


I really just want to find the best quality way to capture them & convert to dvd. But best quality within reasonable time and expense limits.. don't want to be spending hundreds of $$ more for 2-3% improvements.


That's what's frustrating me at the moment. Should it be capture card-->computer? Or should it be 'regular ntsc vcr-->scc-2 converter-->dvd standalone recorder'? Or maybe 'multi-format vcr-->dvd recorder' is better? If so, should it be an outstanding multi-format vcr or will an average one suffice? But then you must define "suffice". "Suffice" as in the results will still be better than all of the other methods? Or "suffice" as in average and now fallng below the quality of output of some other method? If so, then by how much?? blah blah blah!


sorry. I'm losing it if you can't already tell.



Quote:
I feel your pain.


"for now" I'm surmising that your questioning if your current method is the best possible way of doing it.


If that be the case, just find a solution already and then please fill me in. can't you see I'm on the brink here?

Well I've been "around the block" with VHS PAL in the land of NTSC (USA).


At first I got a multi-system VHS VCR that could play any format but not do conversion. So PAL could be played but only be outputted as PAL. This VHS VCR cost me $650


I got a TenLabs PAL NTSC digital converter box. Picture was OK but not great. This is how I did the conversion from PAL to NTSC for years.


Then I bought the CMD-850 around late 2002 or early 2003


At first I thought it had an overall better picture quality than the TenLabs unit (which was supposedly the bomb at the time I bought it for $650) but the CMD-850 was only like $369 when I bough it.


Then I started trying to use the CMD-850 to capture stuff and realized then that it was deinterlacing the video and the jaggies in the picture. Very odd.


But now that I have a computer capture card I can capture PAL as PAL and that is what I've been doing with the PAL VHS tapes I have.


After I capture it (to a high quality AVI format using little compression) I then convert it to MPEG-2 for DVD and in doing that conversion I can convert from PAL to NTSC with amazing quality!


So if you really want the best from a PAL to NTSC conversion I think you really can't beat the computer method.


Of course it took me a long time to get that process to work JUST right but I'm finally there


For those who don't want to use the computer method then I think the next best method might be to use a stand alone DVD recorder that can record NTSC or PAL. Play back the PAL VHS as PAL (i.e., no PAL to NTSC conversion) and record it on the stand alone creating a PAL DVD disc. Now play back the PAL DVD on a DVD player that does PAL to NTSC conversion.


I have some PAL DVD discs that a friend made for me. He used a Philips stand alone DVD recorder and the source was PAL VHS videos.


When I play back these PAL DVD discs on my Cyberhome CH-DVD 500 the conversion to NTSC (that the DVD player does on playback) is actually very good and a close second in picture quality to my method of doing conversion on the computer.


I guess the trick for us in the USA then would be to get a stand alone DVD recorder that can record PAL format (I've heard all the Philips models can for instance) along with a multi-system VHS VCR.

ok, this definitely helps.


Quote:
two quick follow-up questions though.


1) In this preferred method, you simply hook up the capture card to your PAL playable VCR via firewire, correct?


2) In terms of comparative quality to all methods you've tried before, how do you think this method would rank?:


Going with the second method: PAL VCR--->DVD Recorder (that will record in PAL format)--->PAL DVD made (either RAM, RW or R)--->computer for PAL to NTSC conversion--->remake as NTSC DVD-R.


In other words, you lack the capture card but you want to make a disc in NTSC for someone who lacks a PAL supported dvd player.

Quote:
I have a cheap PCI capture card. This has S-Video input and composite video input along with an RF input for cable. I hook my multi-system VHS VCR to it using the composite input with the audio going straight to the sound card. I play back my PAL VHS tape and the card can be set to record NTSC or PAL so I set it to PAL. I capture an AVI file (using PICVideo MJPEG codec) and end up with a PAL AVI file. I can then convert this to a NTSC MPEG-2 DVD spec file. The capture is not hard but the PAL to NTSC part can be tricky but I've done it enough times now that I know what I'm doing.


Now the other method would be to play back the PAL VHS and record to a stand alone DVD recorder so that you end up with a PAL DVD. This should give good quality.


Now if you can use a DVD player that can play back the PAL DVD and convert to NTSC on the fly then that would be the best quality way of playing back that disc.


If you need to make a true NTSC DVD from that PAL DVD then you need to do a full re-encode ... either on the computer (best method) or by playing back the PAL DVD as NTSC on a conversion type DVD player and record that to a stand alone DVD recorder.


But see either way you are doing double compression that way. First layer of compression is PAL VHS to PAL DVD then second compression layer is from PAL DVD to NTSC DVD. The on-the-fly conversion (playing back the PAL DVD as NTSC) will look good but actually re-encoding it from PAL to NTSC (using computer or stand alone DVD recorder) will degrade quality a bit.


So if you need a NTSC DVD in the end you are better off with the computer method because the PAL capture is of very high quality thus minimal loss when converting it to NTSC DVD. The only real compression step is not the capture step but the step that converts the capture from PAL to NTSC DVD.


My capture card was only $50 US Dollars.


- John "FulciLives" Coleman