[qopit]

How high end a dvd player do you need to get in order to get some video buffering (or something) to avoid the timing stutter that happens on a dvd layer change?


Doesn't bother me that much, but it drives a friend of mine crazy... it is always noticable on all of the cheapie dvd players we've been using to date.


I've looked at a few player specs and don't see it called out... does that mean you don't get it or just that it could be unworthy of listing?


Thanks.


PS: tried searching for threads on this and only really came up with threads on the H/K AVR630 audio blanking problem during an audio format change... this is not what I'm asking about, though.

 

[blgentry]

I'm only aware of a few players that have this, though there may be more I haven't heard of. The Denon 2200 and 2900 both have 8 MB buffers that make the layer change all but invisible. The Denon 3800 (and maybe the 9000?) also have a buffer, but it's smaller and doesn't completely eliminate the layer change.


Brian.

 

[ThumperBoy]

Why do you care about a 1second pause once during a 2hour+ movie?

 

[blgentry]

On a lot of movies, it is not noticable. For example if there is a natural scene change, where both audio AND video fade out, a layer change is not easily seen and doesn't distract from the movie.


However, if the layer change is in the middle of the action, or if there is background (or otherwise) sound still playing *through* the layer change, it's very obvious and seems like something is wrong as both the video and the audio blank out during the layer change.


Take Star Wars Episode II: The layer change is right in the middle of the scene where Obi Wan's ship is approaching a planet. The ship zooms past the screen, background sounds going strong, then PAUSE; black screen; no sound; about 2 to 2.5 seconds later: ZOOM, you see the reverse angle as the ship goes further towards the planet. I thought something might be wrong with the DVD for a second the first time I saw this.


Now, on my 2900 with the buffer, this scene plays through as it should and there is no distraction.


Again, I don't see this as a big issue, but it's quite obvious on some discs and it's *very* nice to have it fixed by a player with a buffer.


Brian.

 

[JimSD]

Quote:

Originally posted by ThumperBoy Why do you care about a 1second pause once during a 2hour+ movie?

Why don't more people care about a 1 second pause? There are so many subtle picture issues that get hashed out in these forums that many people don't even notice, yet those are considered worthy of caring about. A 1 second pause that everyone can notice seems like an even bigger deal. If there was a flaw in a disc that caused a delay, most of us would probably return the disc for one without that delay. So why would 1 second in that case matter but for a layer change it's not supposed to? Just because the pause can be explained by the design of the player doesn't mean it has to be acceptable when it's well known that a larger memory buffer can reduce/remove the pause. A player like the Denon 2200 really is nice on layer changes such as the ones in Saving Private Ryan and Monsters Inc when they occur right in the middle of a scene.


Ask a question here about edge enhancement, CUE, etc which for the most part are noticed only by serious video enthusiasts and there's no problem. Time and time again I've seen questions about layer changes, which any novice notices (including small kids), get treated as unimportant.

 

[Outcast]

Doing a search last night and today on Denon DVD-2200 players because I just ordered one from E-Tronics mainly based on the comments in this forum. Let me add my voice in saying that I too absolutely hate layer changes, especially when they happen in the middle of an action sequence. Even a short 1 second pause is enough to pull me right out of a movie and back into reality sometimes. I really like what JimSD said and I think he makes a great point. Personally when I ordered the Denon today I didn't realize that this particular model practically eliminates layer change audio/video pause because of it's 8MB buffer, and am very glad to hear it. FWIW, the Pioneer 510H recorder I just returned was pretty good regarding layer changes, quite fast but still noticeable. Have tried a Pioneer 563A and Panasonic F65, but wasn't very happy with either and returned them as well (Panasonic had a slow layer change and was finicky with rental DVD's). I really do think that if we really aren't willing to put up with the tiniest flaw in our video and audio, then layer change pause should definitely not be acceptable as well, expecially considering it can so easily be eliminated for the most part and cheaply IMHO.

 

[Monstermile]

Quote:

Originally posted by blgentry Take Star Wars Episode II: The layer change is right in the middle of the scene where Obi Wan's ship is approaching a planet. The ship zooms past the screen, background sounds going strong, then PAUSE; black screen; no sound; about 2 to 2.5 seconds later: ZOOM, you see the reverse angle as the ship goes further towards the planet. I thought something might be wrong with the DVD for a second the first time I saw this.

I have an older model Panasonic and the layer change isn't that drastically noticable in Episode II. In fact with every DVD I have ever watched it is more like a split second hesitation. Nothing more. Never had any actually pause or go blank.

 

[anthonymoody]

I completely agree that the layer change can be a major distraction. Fact is, if you notice it, you're taken out of the immersive experience, even if only briefly. Perhaps the level of frustration with this is in proportion to the size and immersiveness (?) of ones home theater. My screen happens to be relatively large, so when the picture freezes it's quite noticeable, even though it's quick.


Ironically, many older DVD players seem to suffer this less. I have an old Sony 7000 (considered by many to be one of the 1st reference players) and I've never noticed the layer change. On my main system I use a more recent Panny player where the layer change is almost always noticeable.


IMO the folks doing the DVD mastering need to pay more attention to where they place this. They could 'start' the film later on the disc in order to move the layer change to a less noticeable point.


TM