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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 Link to P50 Clip


I shot a short video clip (using a Sony 3CCD DV camera) of DirecTV source displayed on my P50.


Please take a look at it and let me know your thoughts.


1) Do you see this "banding" on your display?

2) Do you attribute it to the compressed DirecTV signals?


Note that the banding is much worse on the local channels than other channels. Unfortunately, that's also what we watch the most.


Thanks to DSwallow for hosting the clip!
 

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that's what regular bell expressvu looks like on my P50. i've also seen it to a much lesser extent on portions of some DVDs.


i assumed that regular TV looks like that because the signal is bad, and on DVD wherever the MPEG 2 compression is poorly done.


do others with the fuji experience this same phenomenon? if not, should smackdaddy and i be concerned that our P50's are defective?


- jd
 

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Smackdaddy,


After looking at the video (I'll try again tonight on a better PC and

monitor), you are seeing "normal" DTV on a "large digital display".

A plasma, DLP RPTV and LCD RPTV (I've seen all these) will "enhance"

the compression artifacts compared to an analog CRT based TV.

What I see in your video is "typical" quality from DTV. Some channels

are better, some are worse. Your Elite is/was probably one of the best large

analog RTPVs when it comes to hiding DTV's compression artifacts.

You would probably see the same PQ switching to any large screen

digital TV. I've seen limited DTV on DLPs and LCD RPTVs, but the

PQ was worse than what I see on my P50.


If DVD and HDTV look fine, then there is probably nothing wrong with

the P50.


How close do you sit?


larry
 

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Smack, try watching Fox News and see if you see it on that channel. With the war coverage, I've been watching quite a bit of Fox and there are times that some shots look pretty sharp without any artifacting. However, there are other channels that look pretty lousy.
 

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hold-the-spam: :)

Besides a Sony SAT-T60 DirecTivo, I have a Zenith 520 DirecTV/HDTV

stb connected via DVI to my P50. With DVI the picture has slightly

more detail than the DirecTivo when watching the same channels.

However, bad channels look just as bad and good channels look only

slightly better.


larry
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well, it's good to know you guys are seeing it on your displays (and more than the P50) as well. I think I forgot to mention that the clips were recorded on my DirecTivo. However, before anyone thinks the DirecTivo is causing of the issues...I hooked up a D* box as well and it looks just as bad, if not worse.


I also have a Panasonic D* HD box (I forget the model number....TSUsomething...it's the box that has a jet engine for a fan). Slight improvement on the non-HD channels.


I sit about 20 feet from the TV. I've found that the issue primarily resides in skin tones (especially if there are red/rosy cheeks). I also found that turning down color slightly helps with the issue on skin tones somewhat.


Do you all have sort of "squiggly" lines on skin tones when the person moves their face? That's what really bugs me the most!


I must say, DVD's and HD are awesome on the P50 (I haven't seen any of the same issues on DVD's).


I will also say that, besides the skin tone issue noted above, I believe the P50 does an overall better job on regular D* channels than the Pioneer Elite 520HD that I previously had. There's just less grain on the average channel.


Ken, I'll check Fox News when I get back in town (I left town just after my post yesterday). I can definitely see a difference on, say, HBO vs. locals, so I'm sure Fox News is a channel that's less compressed by D*.

------------------------------

By the way, some of you may have read one of my previous posts about mounting my P50 and in-walls. The issue was the studs would put the TV 7" off-center on the wall, and if I centered the TV using a bracket with lateral movement, the stud wouldn't allow the center channel to go in it's proper place.


I had a carpenter out today...we're going to open the wall next week and build a header box. While I've got the wall open, I'm going to run all my cables, including speaker wire for the left, center and right channels. Fishing the cables will sure be easier.......
 

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Don't know if this helps but i have a 433 with sd cable and no box hooked up to a VCR and the picture on many channels is excellent with out of 80 channels about 5 that I consider awful with pictures like what you have on your video.I refused to get a digital upgrade and a new box from Comcast because of the compression and poor pq that I saw on friends digital upgraded channels.I'm waiting for the hd card to come out next year before i get any hd but my cable sd reception is so good I can live with it for a while. Matt
 

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OK, I've been victimized now. :)


Last night I was watching something I recorded on the TiVo that I don't usually watch and throughout there was horrendous banding occurring. I really can only conclude one of two things: (1) It's always been there, and I never noticed before, or (2) the banding is a result of poor compression going on at DirecTV's uplink.


I heavily discount #1 because I then had to take a sanity break and watch something I normally watch and banding was rarely evident.


I still have my old RPTV sitting in the same room so may run an extra cable over to it just to see if this is something my old TV didn't show, or didn't show in excruciating detail enough for me to notice, or my discerning capability has changed enough I will see it everywhere I look.


I sincerely hope it's not the latter. I would just die. :)
 

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I know I'm going to be sorry I said this but.....You guys spent how much too be able to see that????
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
OK, I've been victimized now. :)


Last night I was watching something I recorded on the TiVo that I don't usually watch and throughout there was horrendous banding occurring. I really can only conclude one of two things: (1) It's always been there, and I never noticed before, or (2) the banding is a result of poor compression going on at DirecTV's uplink.

I think it is (1) and (2) above and: (3) the Tivo recording quality


don't know what kind of Tivo you have- my DirecTivo actually looks better with a composite video connection to the P50 than S-Video:


I didn't believe until I tried it


Mark
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by rmcgirr83
I know I'm going to be sorry I said this but.....You guys spent how much too be able to see that????
I seriously doubt that ANYONE bought a plasma to improve their DirecTV watching! You almost certainly will not see this in HDVT or DVD viewing.:)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by SmackDaddy
Now you're in trouble! You're going to see the banding on skin tones every single time it occurs!
Doug Daddy. May your Sony CCD camera lens crack. :p


Quote:
Originally posted by rmcgirr83
I know I'm going to be sorry I said this but.....You guys spent how much too be able to see that????
Less than many, at least.


Quote:
Originally posted by markrubin
don't know what kind of Tivo you have- my DirecTivo actually looks better with a composite video connection to the P50 than S-Video
Gonna try that in a few. It's a DirecTiVo, too... Sony SAT-T60. It certainly was there before to a limited extent, but it's becoming far more apparent recently. I wonder if DirecTV is adjusting compression on some of my regularly watched channels. :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Mine is a DirecTiVo as well. I've hooked up composite, no difference. I've also hooked up a regular DirecTV receiver to the P50 and I see it there as well.


I just think that DirecTV is compressing the hell out of the NYC locals (that's where the banding is most prevalent).


I've been out of town for a few days....when I got home yesterday I watched HDNet for about an hour....WOW is all I can say. Incredible PQ. So, I know it's not the P50.


Anyone that says "and you spent how much so you could see that" must not have an HDTV. If you do, you're also watching crappy SD programming on your set.
 

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Same here, composite really wasn't much different. If anything it was worse, a little more contrasty and a little less detail in those contrasty areas.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by SmackDaddy
Anyone that says "and you spent how much so you could see that" must not have an HDTV. If you do, you're also watching crappy SD programming on your set.
Ah, yeah that's all i get unless you want to talk about the two channels of HD that we receive. Nope, don't have an HDTV, also don't have HD, have the ED Panny and am very happy with that, thank you very much.


In three years, who knows maybe then I'll get a true HDTV as long as I can get more than two channels of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well, I already get HDNet, Showtime, HBO and CBS in HD. We also get Fox in widescreen (and there is an improvement in PQ).


The NY locals are all scheduled to have HD up and running again this year, and almost all non-news/reality shows are HD.


By the way, I also watch DVD's on my P50 as well.


You may feel your ED purchase was enough. Good for you.
 
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