AVS Forum banner

641 - 660 of 713 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
964 Posts
@ Mike, there seems to be a misunderstanding here. When the 2 of us discussed this topic previously, you posted in a way that read to me as if you were saying that comparing image quality should only be done with moving images, and not with still frames. And I replied by pointing you to the fact that scientists and researchers world wide today actually compare video upscaling quality primarily by measuring and comparing single ("still") frames with well-known metrics such as PSNR and SSIM. Which is certainly a worthwhile fact to mention?

But I fully agree with you and Javs that comparing image quality in motion is important, as well. I'm a fan of comparing "everything". Artificial test patterns, still photos and movie content. In still frames using pixel peeping and in motion. From seating distance and with the nose pressed to the screen. Personally, I use pixel peeping in screenshots as my primary testing & comparison & development method, which is what scientists and researchers seem to do, as well. The reason for this preference is that it makes things more objective. You just can't cheat that easily on still frames. Most artifacts like e.g. ringing and aliasing become easily visible, which can be missed by the inexperienced eye in motion. Plus, you can switch back & forth between 2 comparison images in the blink of an eye (which makes even small differences visible), while when you compare motion sequences, you need to rely on short term visual memory. But as I said, I like to test in motion, as well, to get the "full picture", and to make sure that there are no motion artifacts etc.

There are certain artifacts that are way more visible in motion, as well. E.g. if you have banding, often in a fade-to-black the bands are moving very visibly, which makes the banding stick out like a sore thumb, while in still frames it can be much less obvious. Or if there's an upscaling algo which tries to hallucinate texture detail, that could look great in stills but could potentially look terrible in motion. So testing in motion is definitely helpful/useful.
Hi Madshi, that definitely makes sense and keep up the good work.

Does the Envy allow native (non-scaled) content to be sharpened? - I am very sensitive to sharpness and like my images sharp without the detrimental effects of over-sharpening. Having said that, I would want my images (still and moving) to be profoundly sharp when viewed from my seating position which means that it would look a touch over-sharp when viewed close-up.

Another question I have is whether you've looked into a more sophisticated method for local contrast enhancement?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
964 Posts
The NVIDIA Shield definitely hallucinates texture detail that's such an apt term LOL.

It's terrible. I don't know what drugs they are on over there, it looks ok in still, but when it moves it's got crazy shimmering artefacts. I can't believe a lot of the 'internet' think it's amazing. I really had high hopes for that box but it's been pretty disappointing.
I've never seen the NVIDIA Shield Pro 2019 in action but after reading the reviews, I realised that there is no significant performance upgrade in exception to the AI upscaling. Hence, I decided to stick with my 2017 model which is still nice overall.

Have you tried running Netflix via the Envy? - would be interesting to get your views on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,801 Posts
I've never seen the NVIDIA Shield Pro 2019 in action but after reading the reviews, I realised that there is no significant performance upgrade in exception to the AI upscaling. Hence, I decided to stick with my 2017 model which is still nice overall.

Have you tried running Netflix via the Envy? - would be interesting to get your views on that.
I don't have an envy, but I'll have one to look at in about a month or so, but will be using the source direct modes on the shield as a source for the comparisons I plan to undertake and will surely have a look at Netflix.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,149 Posts
I don't have an envy, but I'll have one to look at in about a month or so, but will be using the source direct modes on the shield as a source for the comparisons I plan to undertake and will surely have a look at Netflix.
Javs, I have never been able to get the source direct out of Shield for streaming content from Netflix, Amazon, others even with the 3rd party software
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,655 Posts
Javs, I have never been able to get the source direct out of Shield for streaming content from Netflix, Amazon, others even with the 3rd party software
Same here. I bought it because I read about the 3rd party APP Refresh Rate being able to do this with Nvidia Shield. Went through the process three times and never could get it to work. The Shield does add Dolby Atmos, which I was not getting with Roku, so will probably keep it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,895 Posts
I could not even get Netflix to work. :(
Give this a try... set the Shield to output 1080p/60 on the main settings (for the Home screen) and then see if it will switch. I have found that going down (4k-to-1080p) seems to be a problem but switching from 1080p-to-4k seems to work better. I have verified this on various Shields (both 2017 and 2019 models).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,935 Posts
Same here. I bought it because I read about the 3rd party APP Refresh Rate being able to do this with Nvidia Shield. Went through the process three times and never could get it to work. The Shield does add Dolby Atmos, which I was not getting with Roku, so will probably keep it.
I first received Atmos from Roku via Vudu when Dolby released "The Dolby Atmos Experience" with four short demos (Silent, Amaze, Leaf, Unfold) several years ago. I've been obtaining Atmos via appropriate Roku apps (especially from Netflix & Vudu) for more than a year. Are you saying that you NEVER get Atmos from a 4K Roku via HDMI?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
458 Posts
Give this a try... set the Shield to output 1080p/60 on the main settings (for the Home screen) and then see if it will switch. I have found that going down (4k-to-1080p) seems to be a problem but switching from 1080p-to-4k seems to work better. I have verified this on various Shields (both 2017 and 2019 models).
AFAIR, Netflix won´t even give you 4K content as an option when you´re running at 1080p.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,655 Posts
I first received Atmos from Roku via Vudu when Dolby released "The Dolby Atmos Experience" with four short demos (Silent, Amaze, Leaf, Unfold) several years ago. I've been obtaining Atmos via appropriate Roku apps (especially from Netflix & Vudu) for more than a year. Are you saying that you NEVER get Atmos from a 4K Roku via HDMI?
You might want to check that. Roku has not even started shipping the player that can do atmos. Supposed to start shipping today.
Roku launches new Ultra player with Dolby Vision & Atmos
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
You might want to check that. Roku has not even started shipping the player that can do atmos. Supposed to start shipping today.
Roku launches new Ultra player with Dolby Vision & Atmos
Really ... I think I have watched Atmos with Netflix for several years on my Roku as well. This was with a Roku 4.

I only had 7.1 speaker setup, but the receiver used to report Atmos input with content like punisher. So I ended up getting pioneer up firing speakers to really experience the Atmos effects.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,935 Posts
You might want to check that. Roku has not even started shipping the player that can do atmos. Supposed to start shipping today.
Roku launches new Ultra player with Dolby Vision & Atmos
I misspoke about Atmos on the Roku for Netflix (I was thinking about Netflix Atmos on my ATV4K), but here is a screen shot from my Roku indicating Atmos for "Pride and Prejudice & Zombies" from my Vudu UHD digital movie collection. I've overlayed the GUI from my Yamaha RX-A3080 AVR.
3046889
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
458 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,940 Posts
Is this the New ROKU that ships in October 15th 2020 you guys are referring to ???

3046906



Terry
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
458 Posts
Not on Netflix
But isn´t that then an app issue? Wasn´t that the same thing with Netflix on Shield and ATV? Atmos with Netflix sometimes worked and sometimes not.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,940 Posts
Guys,

I decided to not wait and just placed my Pre-Order with ROKU.

View attachment 3046915

Terry
Guys,

It's done .................
I stream a lot !!!



Terry
 
641 - 660 of 713 Posts
Top