[mightyhuhn]

nope there are no image comparison between the processors here in this thread.
so there has been no comparison done yet.

you can find a lot of example screen for the envy and barely any for the lumagen.

there are some technical facts.
the envy can't deal with audio it needs to be setup in a way that the AVR is set before it.
in terms of input lag the lumagen is bad the envy should not be considered if you care about input lag at all.

 

[Kris Deering]

Huh? There have been a few comparisons done already. MadVR guys just haven’t liked the results.

Also not sure what you are talking about for bad input lag on Lumagen. Lumagen even has a game mode specifically for input lag that users rave about.

 

[Die Zwei]

Also not sure what you are talking about for bad input lag on Lumagen. Lumagen even has a game mode specifically for input lag that users rave about.

I think that´s a typo in his post - i think he meant the input lag of the Envy is bad (high) because he continues the sentence with reference to the Envy.

 

[mightyhuhn]

Huh? There have been a few comparisons done already. MadVR guys just haven’t liked the results.

there are image comparison in this thread?
feel free to link them from this thread.

Also not sure what you are talking about for bad input lag on Lumagen. Lumagen even has a game mode specifically for input lag that users rave about.

a game mode or not the input lag is bad. it doesn't matter if it is massively better than the envy it's still not in the realm of good input lag. the lumagen is usable the envy isn't but i'm pretty sure i made that clear.
they can't do 120 HZ input output which makes it noncompetitive impossible to get the low input lag even on older TVs.
i know the argument about high end PJ not having this but that doesn't change that the feature is just plain missing and that's a very bad excuse for leaving it out any way.

 

[bobof]

a game mode or not the input lag is bad. it doesn't matter if it is massively better than the envy it's still not in the realm of good input lag. the lumagen is usable the envy isn't but i'm pretty sure i made that clear.
they can't do 120 HZ input output which makes it noncompetitive impossible to get the low input lag even on older TVs.
i know the argument about high end PJ not having this but that doesn't change that the feature is just plain missing and that's a very bad excuse for leaving it out any way.

I understand the frame delay on the Lumagen game mode with genlock enabled at 60p is only something like 1/8th of a frame - 2ms - for input frame start to output frame start (New Lumagen Radiance Pro Series).

The implementation of such a fast game mode shows up some of the issues with this - basically it becomes impossible to perform timely full-frame analysis and process that frame (you don't have the necessary frame in hand to process) so in the Lumagen setup DTM changes I believe happen on the next frame.

I think frankly anyone who's worried at the level of that and 60p being non-competitive is just going to be hunched over a monitor in a gaming dungeon somewhere... . For nearly everyone else, the game mode on the Lumagen will be fine I'm sure.

 

[mightyhuhn]

great post about the specifications.

very high transparency.

 

[Karl Maga]

I game daily on a PS5 -> Lumagen Radiance Pro -> JVC NX-7, there is no discernible lag introduced by the Radiance Pro.

 

[Javs]

nope there are no image comparison between the processors here in this thread.
so there has been no comparison done yet.

There are several comparing directly MadVR and a Lumagen since before the upscaling was reworked on Lumagen... Proper frame captures from Video In.

Video Processors In-Depth Evaluation, Analysis &amp...

The source direct works good in the Strato unless you have a scope screen and want the cover art menu to take up your whole screen. Can you use K control commands to change? I use the control commands to reconfigure my screen to 2.4 for movie playback (I have a drop down masking system). I...

www.avsforum.com

Video Processors In-Depth Evaluation, Analysis &amp...

Correct. The source file is from the BD version. LOTR is not yet available as 4K HDR yet. Cool, I've been saving it to watch with my lad when he's a bit older - not seen any of them yet. I'd seen mention of a remaster but I see it's not going to appear til next year now. That's exactly what...

www.avsforum.com

Then the upscaling got redone, and I have seen photographs of that too, but will not post them here, this time the Envy was used, MadVR was still sharper when analysed, but the gap was closed better than shown above, so it was a 'non-issue' according to the person who took the photographs allowing them to focus on other strengths they found, tone mapping etc..

I agree, it would be nice to see a new set of comparison shots, as I too think if we are going to use them to analyse projectors then its fair to analyse video processors the same way, so I simply dont subscribe to the 'you must look only at moving images' thing, I think thats 'an' aspect, but not 'the' whole thing.

I was going to do it, had an Envy here for nearly two months in a box, but my daughter got seriously sick and spent 2 months in hospital, shes better now, but the envy has moved on.

 

[Karl Maga]

There are several comparing directly MadVR and a Lumagen since before the upscaling was reworked on Lumagen... Proper frame captures from Video In.

Video Processors In-Depth Evaluation, Analysis &amp...

The source direct works good in the Strato unless you have a scope screen and want the cover art menu to take up your whole screen. Can you use K control commands to change? I use the control commands to reconfigure my screen to 2.4 for movie playback (I have a drop down masking system). I...

www.avsforum.com

Video Processors In-Depth Evaluation, Analysis &amp...

Correct. The source file is from the BD version. LOTR is not yet available as 4K HDR yet. Cool, I've been saving it to watch with my lad when he's a bit older - not seen any of them yet. I'd seen mention of a remaster but I see it's not going to appear til next year now. That's exactly what...

www.avsforum.com

Then the upscaling got redone, and I have seen photographs of that too, but will not post them here, this time the Envy was used, MadVR was still sharper when analysed, but the gap was closed better than shown above, so it was a 'non-issue' according to the person who took the photographs allowing them to focus on other strengths they found, tone mapping etc..

I agree, it would be nice to see a new set of comparison shots, as I too think if we are going to use them to analyse projectors then its fair to analyse video processors the same way, so I simply dont subscribe to the 'you must look only at moving images' thing, I think thats 'an' aspect, but not 'the' whole thing.

I was going to do it, had an Envy here for nearly two months in a box, but my daughter got seriously sick and spent 2 months in hospital, shes better now, but the envy has moved on.

Sincerely glad to here your daughter is better. I went through a two week hospital stay for my first born (at birth), and that was traumatic. I wish you all the best.

 

[Javs]

Sincerely glad to here your daughter is better. I went through a two week hospital stay for my first born (at birth), and that was traumatic. I wish you all the best.

Thank you very much, it was not fun.

 

[gowthamn]

If gaming is not a factor then madVR Envy might be better for movies? If they are close enough I might prefer the Envy as its PC based.

Also is the Envy the same as the madVR for HTPC? Do thy offer the same performance?

 

[Karl Maga]

If gaming is not a factor then madVR Envy might be better for movies? If they are close enough I might prefer the Envy as its PC based.

Lots of emotion around the topic of which is best. The only direct, hands on comparison I’m aware of selected the Lumagen Radiance Pro as the preferred choice.

I made some very handsome commissions selling PC’s for over 20 years, not sure I’d consider a PC based solution a desirable thing. They’re quite capable computationally, but far from favorable to AV applications.

 

[markmon1]

not sure I’d consider a PC based solution a desirable thing. They’re quite capable computationally, but far from favorable to AV applications.

IMO, pure nonsense. I suppose you'd also rule out Trinnov.

 

[mightyhuhn]

I agree, it would be nice to see a new set of comparison shots, as I too think if we are going to use them to analyse projectors then its fair to analyse video processors the same way, so I simply dont subscribe to the 'you must look only at moving images' thing, I think thats 'an' aspect, but not 'the' whole thing.

if moving image is wanted i don't see anything stopping anyone from doing so.
it's not hard to capture a video loop using a lossless video codec.

 

[Karl Maga]

IMO, pure nonsense. I suppose you'd also rule out Trinnov.

Nah, while I have not heard a Trinnov, I trust the numerous sources who proclaim it delightful. Same for the Envy.

EDIT: You seem to conclude I’m saying a PC base is bad. That was not my intention. But it is not an ideal starting point.

 

[G-Rex]

Lots of emotion around the topic of which is best. The only direct, hands on comparison I’m aware of selected the Lumagen Radiance Pro as the preferred choice.

I made some very handsome commissions selling PC’s for over 20 years, not sure I’d consider a PC based solution a desirable thing. They’re quite capable computationally, but far from favorable to AV applications.

Due to the PC based Envy exceeding my expectations, I am considering moving to a Trinnov for my SSP (something I never thought I would say). They are very costly SSPs, so they need to be reliable and last a long time. After contacting Trinnov to further elaborate on such reliability concerns, they assured me that the failure rate is very low. Part of the reason is both the Envy and the Trinnov operate with very efficient and streamlined closed systems.

In the the case of Trinnov, a very custom and beefed up version of Linux. The hardware is stressed considerably less than the open ended (jack of all trades PC) which eventually tasks and takes a toll on the hardware, this according to Trinnov. If the failure rate was very high, I wouldn’t think they would they offer an extended warranty to 10 years. This was a good and reassuring move by them.

 

[Karl Maga]

Due to the PC based Envy exceeding my expectations, I am considering moving to a Trinnov for my SSP (something I never thought I would say). They are very costly SSPs, so they need to be reliable and last a long time. After contacting Trinnov to further elaborate on such reliability concerns, they assured me that the failure rate is very low. Part of the reason is both the Envy and the Trinnov operate with very efficient and streamlined closed systems.

In the the case of Trinnov, a very custom and beefed up version of Linux. The hardware is stressed considerably less than the open ended (jack of all trades PC) which eventually tasks and takes a toll on the hardware, this according to Trinnov. If the failure rate was very high, I wouldn’t think they would they offer an extended warranty to 10 years. This was a good and reassuring move by them.

I had customers that ran some of their PC’s for almost a decade, and even then they sometimes switched simply because thay could no longer get support contracts. PC’s are very reliable, and as you described, Trinnov and MadVR have further refined their use case.

 

[Sam Ash]

Has the DTM algo improved on madVR, it's been quite a while since I followed this thread. Another interest of mine has been the edge enhancement without introducing noise, MadVR has done a good job in this area. Furthermore, I do like the highlight and shadow recovery ability too. Can all the algos run in parallel?

I am very sensitive to sharpness except in areas where DOF effects are intentional and, I must admit, I did like the upscaling refinements on MadVR. Not sure if Madshi looked into LCE.

 

[ddgdl]

Madvr has made a huge tonemapping leap in the last month. I believe the envy has a version of the new TM that was released in a new firmware two weeks ago.

 

[Sam Ash]

Madvr has made a huge tonemapping leap in the last month. I believe the envy has a version of the new TM that was released in a new firmware two weeks ago.

Thank you for letting us know about the TM upgrade.