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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ZT60: We'd like to connect the audio out to our legacy analog preamp, tuner, & power amp 2.0 sound system.
Application: OTA reception (no cable or satellite), as well as video streaming, Blu-Ray, and DVDs.


I'm aware Viera plasmas lack analog audio out.

In searching AVS, I found:
  • Using the digital audio out + a DAC is one solution for analog audio output.
  • For OTA applications one should select a DAC that also includes DD & DTS such as Fiio D07 or Gefen GTV-DD-2-AA .
  • There were some concerns that the audio may not always be in sync with the video.
  • The Viera digital audio out is fixed, not variable, and our legacy preamp lacks remote control. (A mute is essential for commercials.)

1. Are there obvious lip sync issues?

2. Are there any other recommended methods (HDMI or USB) for outputting audio from a Viera to a DAC that would provide correct synchronization and/or remote controlled variable audio output?


Our other option is to use our Samsung DTB-H260F instead of the Viera internal tuner. It provides:
  • HDMI & component video (as well as S-video, & composite outs)
  • Variable analog audio out w/o requiring a DAC (as well as optical DD out)
  • Remote control
  • EPG


However, the audio is not always in sync with the video even though both the audio & video are coming from the same source, the DTB-H260F.

3. Is there a way to solve the lip sync issue?

4. Or, is a soundbar the most cost-effective way to have high-quality synchronized audio & video? Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Google search results:

Audio Latency:

CNET Comments:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60st60/4505-6482_7-35566952.html :
Quote:
Bobroudav

Jan 7, 2014


Warning: I purchased this set on CNET's recommendation, only to discover that the "sync" between the picture and the digital audio output is very far off. I can find nothing in the settings to correct this. It seems like a severe flaw to me. Any chance Panasonic will issue a firmware update to fix this defect?
Quote:
fpink3

Dec 9, 2013


Apparently, the otherwise excellent CNET reviews of TV's do not include a test of the "synch" between the digital audio output of a TV with the picture. The reviewer notes that this Panasonic TV has worse "input lag" than other sets. The TV set should compensate for this lag in the set's digital audio output. Apparently this set's optical digital audio output is significantly ahead of the picture. This makes connecting a simple, high quality audio system to the TV set's audio output a problem. Like all TVs, the internal speakers on this set aren't listenable compared to any decent audio system. Few good audio systems have a "delay adjustment" built-in, so this seems like a significant error on Panasonic's part.
FIIO D07 Reviews:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ZT60 E-Help Search - http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/E-HELP_ZT60.PDF :
  1. Viera Link:

    Is there a way to utilize the HDAVI Control and its automatic lip-sync function for an analog legacy sound system?
  2. Bluetooth Audio Settings:

    Is there a Bluetooth receiver available to adjust the lip-sync delay function?


Thanks
 

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FWIW, in connecting my ZT60 TVs to older/analog amps (circa 1990's receiver/C-J PV-10 pre-amp w/MV-55amp), I've used a few different methods. For bluetooth, I used this:


- HomeSpot NFC-enabled Bluetooth Audio Receiver

http://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-NFC-enabled-Bluetooth-Receiver-System/dp/B009OBCAW2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393878984&sr=8-1&keywords=bluetooth+receiver


...and lip-sync can be adjusted via the ZT's Bluetooth settings menu.


I also went with a low cost receiver (Yamaha RX-v375) as it has an optical-in input, and lip-sync is adjusted via the receiver. I have my analog system still connected to my speakers, and just ran a 2nd set of speaker wires from the additional receiver. For $200 (on sale at BBuy last week), the RX-v375 allows me to save my tubes, as I'm also able to connect my media player (mp3/flac files), via a 2nd connection, to the v375, while still being connected to the tube system.


I had started with a low cost ($30 toslink-to-RCA) converter, and while it does the job, lip-sync cannot be controlled. For the extra $170, I get the ZT60 connection, and a 2nd system to listen to all my music for when I'm "just watching TV", or "just want background/party music".
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The Yamaha RX-v375 A/V receiver looks very appealing. Includes: DAC, lip-sync control, and remote control w/o the need for a wireless Bluetooth signal. I was just hoping to continue to use our very reliable legacy sound sys.


I guess anther option might be to just replace our analog preamp with an A/V preamp.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man  /t/1520593/viera-audio-out-or-viera-samsung-dtb-h260f-to-2-0-sound-system/0_100#post_24434429


The Yamaha RX-v375 A/V receiver looks very appealing. Includes: DAC, lip-sync control, and remote control w/o the need for a wireless Bluetooth signal. I was just hoping to continue to use our very reliable legacy sound sys.


I guess anther option might be to just replace our analog preamp with an A/V preamp.

If you go with the BT receiver, you won't need a DAC, as it has "RCA out" (actually, its "mini-headphone", but you use a "mini-headphone-to-RCA cable"). You just treat it as any other input device (e.g. CD player). And again, you get the Lip-sync via the ZT itself, as it has built-in BT. I'm still using it on my 2nd system, into an older Yamaha receiver.

 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
colnago,


Understood.

Q. Is there a recommended Bluetooth Audio Receiver that includes remote control?

Q. Which of the following lip-sync capable components provides better sound quality from your ZT60?
  • HomeSpot NFC-enabled Bluetooth Audio Receiver
  • Yamaha RX-v375 A/V receiver
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
 Panasonic and DTS Deliver High Quality Home Entertainment Experience


Feb. 1 2013
Quote:
By incorporating DTS 2.0+Digital Out, Panasonic’s TVs will be able to take advantage of DTS encoded content and play high-definition audio directly from the TV’s built-in audio system. DTS 2.0+Digital Out also allows the TV to digitally pass a DTS encoded audio feed to any connected audio system, such as an AV receiver or soundbar.

Sadly, there's no mention of a plug & Play option for legacy analog systems, especially one that also includes variable audio output via the Panasonic remote and lip-sync adjustment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters  /t/1504961/st60-digital-to-analog-sound-converter#post_24060891


No. The CE Industry is killing off all the legacy analog stuff.


There are some Optical-to-RCA converters available but there is no way to control the volume from the TV since there is no Variable Output option. These are typically used with older stereo receivers that do not have an optical input.


If you want to use your old red/white RCA jacked speaker setup, a any cheap older used stereo receiver or surround sound receiver with an optical input should work, then you can control the volume of the speakers via the receiver's remote.

Given the above, the Samsung DTB-H260F, that we already own, appears to be best solution that doesn't require a wireless Bluetooth signal:
  • HDMI & component video
  • Variable analog audio output w/o requiring an external DAC
  • Remote control
  • Electronic Program Guide

Q. Is there any way to adjust the lip-sync function when using with a DTB-H260F with a Panasonic 60-series plasma and a legacy analog sound system?

Q. Does a wireless Bluetooth signal impact the sound quality? Is BT better suited for cell phone headset applications rather than A/V systems?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man  /t/1520593/viera-audio-out-or-viera-samsung-dtb-h260f-to-2-0-sound-system/0_100#post_24435351


colnago,


Understood.

Q. Is there a recommended Bluetooth Audio Receiver that includes remote control?

Q. Which of the following lip-sync capable components provides better sound quality from your ZT60?
  • HomeSpot NFC-enabled Bluetooth Audio Receiver
  • Yamaha RX-v375 A/V receiver

Not sure about a "remote BT" receiver...only ones that I'm aware of are full blown stereo receivers, with built-in BT capability.


As far as "which sounds better?"....hard to say, I'm not the one to provide an accurate response as I just started "listening to a TV thru a stereo", and I dislike solid state amps. They are also on completely different systems, and speakers are a custom/modified B&W 686 vs. B&W 805 Nautilus. The older "non-HDMI" Yamaha receiver is much better than the newer RX-v375, as far as the amplification sound quality, but I can't imagine that the processing on a $27 BT receiver would sound better than a dual Burr-Brown processor on the v375. That said, the BT setup on the older/modded equipment does sound pleasing. I wouldn't want it as a core connection for critically listening to music, but its fine for "TV".


If you still like "analog", I've seen the Peachtree Decco65 tube integrated amp on sale as low as $699. It will have an even better DAC than the Yamaha, remote control, and TOSLINK input for the ZT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by colnago  /t/1520593/viera-audio-out-or-viera-samsung-dtb-h260f-to-2-0-sound-system#post_24442370


Not sure about a "remote BT" receiver...only ones that I'm aware of are full blown stereo receivers, with built-in BT capability.


As far as "which sounds better?".... The older "non-HDMI" Yamaha receiver is much better than the newer RX-v375, as far as the amplification sound quality, but I can't imagine that the processing on a $27 BT receiver would sound better than a dual Burr-Brown processor on the v375. That said, the BT setup on the older/modded equipment does sound pleasing. I wouldn't want it as a core connection for critically listening to music, but its fine for "TV".


If you still like "analog", I've seen the Peachtree Decco65 tube integrated amp on sale as low as $699. It will have an even better DAC than the Yamaha, remote control, and TOSLINK input for the ZT.

Thanks colnago!


Agreed, at $27, the BT receiver probably has a very basic DAC compared with the dual Burr-Brown processor on the v375. The BT wireless connection also probably has some limitations compared with HDMI or component video & optical digital or analog audio. Additionally, we would want remote control.


It sounds like an A/V receiver or preamp is probably a better choice than BT. Alternatively, I understand a soundbar is a popular option. However, all these solutions would be somewhat redundant for us as we already have a high quality sound system that has stood the test of time. It's a shame the CE industry has resorted to "Planned obsolesce" to improve their sales rather than focusing on refining the state of the art in home entertainment to inspire customers and thus improve sales.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
For the past 3 yrs, we've been using the DTB-H260F with the ZT plasma for OTA HDTV and sending the it's analog out to our legacy 2.0 system w/o any lip-sync issues. We're been very pleased with this system.

Now that we're watching more internet content, I'm revisiting the original DAC question of this thread.

An internet search turned up the following:
1. http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produ...ntid=50-8394&gclid=COP5g5DhrdECFYWKswod4JQEzQ
2. http://www.sescom.com/product.asp?item=SES-A-V-SYNC
3. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co...ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876,91442438522,&Q=&A=details

See also:
https://www.cnet.com/news/lip-sync-error-causes-solutions/

Thoughts? Other solutions? Thanks!
 
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