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***Ever try to roll a joint on a CD case? Albums were much better. Speaking second hand, of course, from a life long vinyl friend's experience.
 

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https://www.crutchfield.com/p_158STDH190/Sony-STR-DH190.html

According to that Poster, the $148 Sony should sound just as good at his $5,000 NAD. Why spend the extra $4,850 if it doesn't actually buy you anything?
Did this poster also hold the position that all amps have the same power and the same low impedance drive capability? Maybe the NAD and Sony differ is such ways and that's important.

Also for all we know the NAD was (nearly) a gift and s/he didn't actually pick it.
 

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***Ever try to roll a joint on a CD case? Albums were much better. Speaking second hand, of course, from a life long vinyl friend's experience.
I hear preparing a line of white powder on a CD is better than an LP though.
 

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***Ever try to roll a joint on a CD case? Albums were much better. Speaking second hand, of course, from a life long vinyl friend's experience.
I think we have the same friend! :)
 

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If I still had my turntable and my albums, I would probably set it back up again just for the nostalgia and, who know, I might even be surprised that I still liked it as much as I did when I was younger. But I don't have the disposable $$$$ to get back into it again from scratch these days especially when I rarely even listen to CDs anymore. Back in my vinyl days, I had a tiny 19" tv and only 4 tv stations so I had more time to listen to music. Today, my video options are almost overwhelming so I tend to do my of my music listening late in the night using (Roku)streaming apps and headphones. Maybe I need better headphones because I cannot listen to them for more than an hour or so before they start to bother me....but that's another thread topic for the 'headphones' section! ;)
The nice thing about vintage audio if it's not a highly demanded piece yet still good...you can get it real cheap. For instance, after buying a new turntable and preamp and connecting it my system, I decided to "complete the set" with a cassette deck just for grins. I found a well kept barely used Yamaha KX-W952 that had a MSRP near $700 in the 1990's for $60. Besides keeping my old vinyl collection in storage, I also kept about half my tapes in boxes too.
 

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Did this poster also hold the position that all amps have the same power and the same low impedance drive capability? Maybe the NAD and Sony differ is such ways and that's important.

Also for all we know the NAD was (nearly) a gift and s/he didn't actually pick it.
No it wasn't a gift, he specifically said he bought it.

But you are right, all amps don't sound the same because all amps aren't designed the same, and they don't have the same component quality, they don't have the same Damp Factor, the same Amp feedback, or output impedance.

My underlying point was that he claimed all amps sound the same, yet he was willing to shell out thousands for an Amp. Seems hard to justify.

But this initial comment was only tangentially related by analogy.

The main point was -

My underlying philosophy when it comes to Wire, Cables, Power Cords, Speakers, Amps, Media, or any other feature or component is - Do what you want but be restrained.

That also applies to CD vs Vinyl. Sure ... do what you want... your money, your life. But don't be ridiculous.

More on topic, there is no need to extol one format nor to denounce another.

It is up to the individual. If you want and like Vinyl, the solution is simply - have Vinyl. If you want and like CD, the solutions is simply - have CD. If you want an like Network Streaming ...cool... have Network Streaming.

The right solution is ALL SOLUTIONS that you want and can afford.

As I said, Stereo systems should be expanded not restricted.

Buy way of another example, there is a $5,000 Luxman Amp that I have been lusting after, no problem, If I had the money, I would certainly buy it. BUT ... I simply can not bring myself to consider the matching $5,000 CD Player. I simply can't believe that this CD player can do anything that a $500 or $1,500 CD can't do.

But of course that reflects my personal priorities, even with, in essence, unlimited money.

Technically a CD CAN BE better, though just because it can does not mean it is in specific cases. But Vinyl also has its aesthetic appeal. But there is no need to pick one over the other. They both have appeal, if you can justify the cost, and you have the personal desire.

Follow your heart and your wallet, and you can't go wrong.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

Steve/bluewizard
 

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But you are right, all amps don't sound the same because all amps aren't designed the same, and they don't have the same component quality, they don't have the same Damp Factor, the same Amp feedback, or output impedance.
Not sure why you started this sentence with "but you are right" because I never wrote something to that effect.

Pretty much all modern day, solid state, name brand, typical class A/B amplifiers kept within their operational limits and driving typical loads sound the same when reproducing music under controlled conditions. Any that sound "different" are not good, they are bad, assuming one's goal is transparency/high fidelity.

The amp section of most Denon and Yamaha brand receivers would even be included as "good"/ the same.
 
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Not sure why you started this sentence with "but you are right" because I never wrote something to that effect.

Pretty much all modern day, solid state, name brand, typical class A/B amplifiers kept within their operational limits and driving typical loads sound the same when reproducing music under controlled conditions. Any that sound "different" are not good, they are bad, assuming one's goal is transparency/high fidelity.

The amp section of most Denon and Yamaha brand receivers would even be included as "good"/ the same.
You said one key phrase, "all modern day." Otherwise, I would disagree that all power amps sound the same. My reasoning is there have been solid state amps in the past that were designed to have a tube amp sound. I'll leave it there so we don't spray off topic. :)
 

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It's trivially easy to intentionally make an amp have a characteristic sound if that's the goal. Luckily there aren't many of those.

Here's a rare example of a modern day bad amp:

"Fig.1 PS Audio Sprout, volume control set to maximum, frequency response at 2.83V into: simulated loudspeaker load (gray), 8 ohms (left channel blue, right red), 4 ohms (left cyan, right magenta), 2 ohms (green) (2dB/vertical div.)"

Instead of doing what an amplifier should, just amplify, it instead amplifies and equalizes.
 

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[...] Here's a rare example of a modern day bad amp [...] Instead of doing what an amplifier should, just amplify, it instead amplifies and equalizes.
Yes, the original PS Audio Sprout was a mess in that way. My understanding is, the new version omits that peak at around 70 Hz.

I'm amazed that they sold the original to people with a 6 dB bump. Seems like malpractice to me.
 
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Yes, the original PS Audio Sprout was a mess in that way. My understanding is, the new version omits that peak at around 70 Hz.

I'm amazed that they sold the original to people with a 6 dB bump. Seems like malpractice to me.
I think on the the new version you can optionally turn the bass bump on or off but on the one I linked to, the original, it is locked on yet the spec sheet makes no mention of it and instead says the response is flat, 20-20kHz.

Maybe they were trying to sneak in some bass boost so it would get good reviews from people with small, desk top speakers yet not expose that it was due to EQ?

This specific EQ is so popular I've owned two different products which had it but of course they were upfront about it and it was defeatable on both. In fact one of the products did nothing other than introduce a few slight variations on this very EQ, at a slightly lower frequency. Within reason it can make it seem like you have a larger speaker or have added a subwoofer, although is saps amplifier reserves to do so whereas adding a true subwoofer via bass management adds amplifier reserves to your mains so they can play slightly more loudly and cleanly.

Allison Electronic Subwoofer

http://roger-russell.com/equalizers/allison2.jpg
 

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You said one key phrase, "all modern day." Otherwise, I would disagree that all power amps sound the same. My reasoning is there have been solid state amps in the past that were designed to have a tube amp sound. I'll leave it there so we don't spray off topic. :)

Even in modern days, not all well designed power amps sound the same. It depends on the speakers and speaker cables. This is a complicated topic, you cannot have a general sentence. I know, I have a lot of experience in test. I design high end power amps. I can assure you if I change the front end of the power amp, it will sound different and I had people came over to do blind testing and they could distinguish different amp and point to the same amp every time.


I have all different designs, I actually have one for just music, one for watching tv where the voice is clearer and better. Both are ultra low THD of 0.005% or better at whole audio band and into 4ohm load at 60W power. All just by changing the front end, not the output stage where it drives the speakers.
 
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I can tell that is a different version of our much loved/reviled(by me as a child as I was practically the only person to use it) Teac 1200u. Used it to record and play back LPs and 45s in the seventies. I am definitely team digital, and have been for decades. Got rid of most of my albums decades ago, although I have a few that haven't made it to CD. Even bought a new turntable, but haven't used it yet.

 
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I stopped using all reel-to-reel, including my TEAC shown below, when DAT and CD recorders came out. Said good bye to my trusty deck (kept in storage for years) about a year ago. It was a pro-grade 2-track machine used in mastering and which was part of the series used to make the sounds of Light Sabers, R2D2, C3PO, and the Tie Fighters (modulated elephant roars*).

Mine is the tallest one shown right under Luke's X-wing fighter in the ad, but mine is the higher grade, 2T.

*https://youtu.be/So0nmciiFJg?t=2350
 

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if I change the front end of the power amp, it will sound different and I had people came over to do blind testing and they could distinguish different amp and point to the same amp every time. All just by changing the front end, not the output stage where it drives the speakers.
Alan, In regard to solid state amps sounding different, what type of changes to the front end do you employ in your design?
 

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I wish there was as much interest in SACD's as there been with Vinyl. I have an Oppo 205 and besides the high Bit rate digital advantages of this player just using XLR cables for standard CD playback sounds incredible.
 

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I wish there was as much interest in SACD's as there been with Vinyl. I have an Oppo 205 and besides the high Bit rate digital advantages of this player just using XLR cables for standard CD playback sounds incredible.
All the Oppo products are/were great. I wish I had jumped on the final model before they shut the production down. You have a great one. I'm also a fan of SACD. Titles are limited and seemed to always be that way. It's hard for me to believe but there are still people that love Audio and never heard one on a good system.
 

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Titles are limited and seemed to always be that way.
That's why it's a niche format. One that I never considered.


It's hard for me to believe but there are still people that love Audio and never heard one on a good system.
Never heard one. I bet it sounds wonderful, even on a "bad" system. :)
 

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That's why it's a niche format. One that I never considered.


Never heard one. I bet it sounds wonderful, even on a "bad" system. :)
They do sound good but it's just like all other formats. It depends on how the sound engineer mixes and records the tracks.
 
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