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Im medium agnostic. I stream, play vinyl, CDs, cassettes, and the harmonica occasionaly.
 

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Is that something Technics themselves admit?
Not to my knowledge, but it's something I've experienced in a couple that have come across my workbench. You can feel the slop and it doesn't track as well as a non DJ'd version.
 

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Could you elaborate on that? . . .

How do 45s end up being inferior, in practice, in your experience?
[First I'll assume you already get why a 45 rpm record of the same groove radius sounds better than a 33 on paper so I won't bother to address that.]

Why does a 45 on paper sound better but in practice often doesn't? Here's Arny's explanation:

"IME most single play 45's are hastily made with quick delivery in high volumes being of the essence. LP's are very sensitive to care during production and sacrifice that, and SQ quickly follows it."

 

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Ah, I knew there were things that I forgot to add to my list and as far as cons go, CD jewel cases are right up there near the top. I have broken my fair share of the either opening them or in a few rare instances, dropping them.
And let's not forget the CD trays that some/all of the holding "teeth" break leaving you with the CD loose inside.
 

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CD can take a lot more abuse than vinyl, you really have to scratch it to make it fail. Vinyl, good luck. I never have to, but do they sell the jewel case? For the ones I listen a lot, I just stack the CD together without casing. Been like that for years and never run into problem. Don't even think about trying on vinyl. For vinyl, even if you look at it wrong, it might give you problem. Then if you like the album and listen a lot, you wear out the vinyl. I worn out two of the Hendrix's Band of Gypsy and had to get the third those days.

Also, if you worry about losing or damage a CD, rip it and burn more copies. Being digital, sound quality won't degrade no matter how many times you copy it. I have my favorite Dave Grusin Migration and Kilauea ripped and put in the laptop so I can burn copies any time I want.

As for reading the stuffs on the CD cover, google the info if you want to now a days!!! It's not like in the good old days you have no other way to get info except reading the album cover. We don't even put CD in their cover when we put in the car, just a booklet that has pocket to store the CDs.

Their is NOT a single thing about vinyl that can touch the CD, not the sound quality, not the ruggedness of the vinyl that can touch CD. It's over unless you are stuck in the yester-decades.

AND, I am already oldfalt, I never get into other digital stream that are even better. CD already inferior, why are we still talking about vinyl? Why spend extra $2K on TT and phono preamp to listen to something inferior to start? Spend the extra money on a better pair of speakers!!!
 

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The sooner the vinyl "fad" is over with, the sooner I can pick up dollar albums again :cool:. CD is the less expensive physical media now and I'm picking up the titles I can't afford on vinyl, used, on the cheap.
 

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Most modern pop/rock is so awful musically I hate it. Can't bear rap. Can't see the point of paying a serious premium for vinyl with music I don't really like.
I find myself taking more chances with my vinyl purchases more than anything else, and I appreciate the collector aspect of that medium because I like collecting. I'm a sucker for the "limited edition" coloured vinyl, and have purchased stuff like that from bands I don't particularly like or even know anything about if it's a super limited run of a pressing.
 

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I can't speak to all of them but the first LP to CD conversion service I randomly came across costs markedly more than simply buying a brand new CD (if the LP came out on CD) itself. [...]
Yes, it not cheap to get that kind of work done -- it's tedious, as you know. That particular outfit converts only LPs that are out of print and never were available as digital. I suppose that's for legal reasons. That makes his market pretty specialized. But if you have an OOP LP and no turntable, even his fees might be worth it to you (as they were to me for a couple of old albums).
 

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Good post.


I'm 56 so grew up listening to records but dumped records for digital when CDs came out and mostly never looked back. Until the vinyl revival wave came, which helped revive my own interest in vinyl.



I'd kept a turntable around on and off for years too, that I'd throw in the system to listen to the records I'd been too lazy to throw away. That was both part of the reason I hadn't gone back to vinyl AND a spark for eventually getting me back in to it. Essentially, while I did notice and enjoy a certain nostalgic and/or comfy alluring sound to vinyl when I played it, I associated it mostly with "Old Dusty Things." All my original records were pretty moth-eaten in terms of covers and sleeves, and I hadn't taken a lot of care of them so they tended to be pretty noisy and scratchy. And for the longest time even stepping in to any surviving record shop was to look through similar reams of "dusty old Second-Hand records." Felt like both a sonic and aesthetic backwards experience.


What changed things for me was the revival of vinyl when I started noticing how much NEW vinyl was being released - both new recordings and re-releases of previous albums, re-masters, etc. I'm a huge fan of soundtracks and that soundtrack genre was particularly big on vinyl, with many re-releases of older soundtracks and most new soundtracks being released on vinyl. The attention to detail in the vinyl soundtrack releases was often off the charts.
The artwork often gorgeous, the attention paid to the materials and feel of the album, even the vinyl coming in many intriguing color designs. And then to slide out a Brand New Record from the sleeve, spanking new pristine vinyl, something I never really experienced since vinyl's hey-day. It felt "new" again, re-vitalized.



And even on my older micro seiki turntable I kept around, the sound quality...new, quiet vinyl...was often fantastic!


So as I dipped more and more in to buying newly released vinyl I found it a really compelling, rewarding experience in every parameter, from aesthetic, to physical, to the sound. The fact I was buying more vinyl induced me to upgrade my turntable to a high-mass and, to me, gorgeous looking turntable. And that introduced yet another pleasing aspect of playing records: turntables are just really cool (to me) both in the engineering and aesthetic appeal, so I get to interact with a really cool piece of gear every time I select a record. Plus, the turntable/arm/cartridge/phono-stage upgrade made ALL my vinyl sound better than I imagined it could.


And down the rabbit hole I went. Despite owning a great digital system (ripped CDs lossless streaming, Tidal, all through a Benchmark DAC) and loving digital, I found myself being drawn more often to purchasing and playing records over the past several years. (I also fell in love with a genre - Library Music - which is mostly found on LP, not in digital form).


None of that is to say "vinyl is better than digital" but rather it's just a description of why vinyl has been rewarding for ME, personally.


And I'll end off with some pros and cons of mediums in terms of my own criteria:


1. CDs.


PROS: When they came out: cleaner more accurate sound. Smaller form factor took up less room. Sound stayed "perfectly the same" if cared for properly.


CONS: Hate, hate, hate the form factor. Can not stand jewel cases which are ugly, not nice to hold, which break and snap at a moment's notice. At this point the CD itself seems superfluous to me: I see it as simply a carrier of the 1s and 0s which can be more conveniently stored on hard drives or streamed. So I don't want CDs to take up any physical space in my house at this point.


2. STREAMING DIGITAL (Both streaming ripped CD library and paid services, in my case Tidal):


PROS: Far more convenient in most ways once set up. Cool interface on iphone or ipad. Countess albums and songs at flick of a finger, never even have to get out of my seat.


CONS: Ripping the physical CDs, and doing the work to organize metadata, was a soul-draining experience. Tedious as hell and just went on and on and on. Glad it is behind me. Also, while album art can be decent on a hand held device, it's not nearly as satisfying as a nice LP in the hand.
Also, one of the PROS also turned out to be something of a CON for me. The instant access to thousands or millions of tracks meant listening to music became more like surfing the web. A "this is interesting, but I wonder what this link will lead to" where I ended up surfing through and sampling music more than really settling down and absorbing. I'd rarely listen to whole albums - there was a restless quality to imbibing music. And, there was the "more of it you have, the less you value it" psychology meant, for me, music felt a bit less substantial, more background. As well, given like many people I work all day on a computer, this meant that listening to music involved yet more interaction with computers and screens. My computer and my phone are tugging at me all day long for attention. I don't want more of the same. Switching to listening to vinyl is a way of really taking a break from digital life for a while, of unplugging. Like reading a paper-back book on the sofa.


3. VINYL:



PROS: (Again: from my perspective): more fulfilling physical/aesthetic experience that ultimately enhances the music listening experience. I almost always settle down for at least a full album side, usually a whole album.

And the fact vinyl tends to be more expensive and is a commitment to a whole album means that my music collection is more carefully curated. I tend to buy albums that I really want to listen to, and I can usually demo most of the tracks to know I like the album. So I can pull any album off my shelves and usually enjoy the whole thing.
Whereas I did not tend my early CD collection so closely (hence have many albums from which I only like a few pieces) and my Tidal favorites collection would tend to be filling up with individual tracks of variable interest...because it was just so easy to add anything to favorites.

Again, love owning and using my turntable.


SOUND: Vinyl, though technically not as capable of objective accuracy as digital, nonetheless tends to sound different. And I often find myself really enjoying the sound of vinyl records. Sometimes preferring the vinyl version to digital. And in just sheer "sound quality" terms, plenty of my LPs blow my mind just like my digital source can, so I rarely feel like I've compromised by listening to "poor sound quality" for the benefit of the other aesthetic elements.


I enjoy having a record collection. There is something about cognitively mapping the music on to the physical object that, for me, enhances the object and the music. There's a bit of that in why I like my tube amplifiers as well:
I love the glow of the tubes and there is a certain conceptual satisfaction that what I'm seeing is the musical signal glowing through those tubes!


Buying records is fun. Though I probably buy most from discogs, I also love the proliferation of record stores where I live, visiting is fun, and I enjoy the interaction with the staff and other record buyers at the store.


CONS: Everyone knows them as they've been listed in this thread. in particular the sonic liabilities - susceptible pops, snaps, warble, background noise, sonic degradation over time, lower technical accuracy, etc. Though some of the "cons" of "having to store the physical object" or "select and play the record, get up half way through to flip it" are "pros" to other people.
Good post Rich and while I've got ten years on you I agree with your analysis. My LP collection, while modest(1500 + or -) is still a pride and joy of mine and my anal attention to record care has shown that even 40 and 50 year old LP's can still sound superb with little or no snap, crackle and pop !
 

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Digital formats have the greater potential, however this potential is far too often squandered due to abysmal mastering due to the Loudness War.

By overamplifying the gain and applying overuse of compression, not only is the dynamic range obliterated but more often than not there is clipping of the audio signal, which causes increased distortion and hence ear fatigue.

The sad sorry situation is that in many instances the best version of a particular music item will be the vinyl release due to the simple fact that the audio mastering is superior due to not having been a casualty of the Loudness War.

Personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE


.
 

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As a member of the old fogies generation I was happy to switch to CDs, no more stylus cleaner and disk washer. I lived in apartments in old buildings and there are generations of dust and every bit heads strait to my albums. What is one thing you can do with a double album and not with a CD?

De-seed some pot to roll joints. For you youngsters, pot had seeds back then and they would taste horrible and acted just like cigarette loads.
RE: Spoiler!
Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon was my go-to.:cool:
 

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Good post.


SOUND: Vinyl, though technically not as capable of objective accuracy as digital, nonetheless tends to sound different. And I often find myself really enjoying the sound of vinyl records. Sometimes preferring the vinyl version to digital. And in just sheer "sound quality" terms, plenty of my LPs blow my mind just like my digital source can, so I rarely feel like I've compromised by listening to "poor sound quality" for the benefit of the other aesthetic elements.


I enjoy having a record collection. There is something about cognitively mapping the music on to the physical object that, for me, enhances the object and the music. There's a bit of that in why I like my tube amplifiers as well:
I love the glow of the tubes and there is a certain conceptual satisfaction that what I'm seeing is the musical signal glowing through those tubes!


Buying records is fun. Though I probably buy most from discogs, I also love the proliferation of record stores where I live, visiting is fun, and I enjoy the interaction with the staff and other record buyers at the store.
The thrill of the hunt is fun. Opens up some memories when you look at record and you say wow, I was doing this or that when this came out.

Reading liner notes, staring at the artwork


all good vibes
 

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RE: Spoiler!
Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon was my go-to.:cool:
The Allman Brothers Band - Eat a Peach

I must be a few years older than you. My 1st concert was the ABB on April 21st 1972 at the New Haven Arena. This is where the New Haven Blades hockey team played. It is said they were the model for the movie "Slapstick" and I testify that it was one shabby venue, but a great show.
 

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VINYL SKIP. There are actually TT that does this, even play both sides automatically! but they tend to be no audiophile quality :(

ALBUM COVER. My next promotion, I will buy into ROON. Allows you to view/control your digital collection via an iPad with full album art glory.
 

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Digital formats have the greater potential, however this potential is far too often squandered due to abysmal mastering due to the Loudness War.

By overamplifying the gain and applying overuse of compression, not only is the dynamic range obliterated but more often than not there is clipping of the audio signal, which causes increased distortion and hence ear fatigue.

The sad sorry situation is that in many instances the best version of a particular music item will be the vinyl due to the simple fact that the audio mastering is superior due to not having been a casualty of the Loudness War.

Personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE


.
What make you think they do a better job in vinyl? Recording and playback media is a completely different thing, you can have bad recording on vinyl and good recording in digital music. They are non related. If there is enough complain, they'll correct that for digitals.
 

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Cleaning Machines

For me the worst thing about vinyl was cleaning the records. I stopped buying new records for years. I was using a VPI 16.5 record cleaner which is great but one cleans records manually. I just bought an ultrasonic record cleaner (expensive - a Degritter) and there is, for vinyl lovers, nothing like eating dinner and having one's records cleaned and dried while doing something else. For much less money (and less functionality) one can make an ultrasonic record cleaner. Drying the record is usually done by putting the record on a dish rack.


As for sound it depends on the recording. I have thousands of CDs and thousands of LPs. There are LPs that in comparison to the same CD sound amazing. And there are CDs that blow the original LP out of the water. But in general, I prefer the prefer the warmth and ambience of vinyl. I think you get all the information out of a groove as opposed to digitized music.


Having a great turntable and cartridge helps one to appreciate vinyl. For very little money one can play CDs and they will sound excellent. That's not the case for vinyl where one wants to extract every bit of information from the groove without introducing noise into the system.
 

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I kind of gave up on vinyl mostly because they were hard to come by back when CDs started. I did keep all my Zappa albums and still have the first record I bought in 1966 Freak Out. I kept around 100 albums and wound up buying around 1,000 CDs over the years until vinyl was easier to get. I now have boxes of CDs which are all on a server and I can't seem to get rid of them. Have my vinyl collection up to around 900 at this time as I buy new and used. The record stores just started opening up here.

The biggest advantage to vinyl is that I work from home and if I play vinyl all day I get to get up every 15 minutes or so to flip or change. If I have a busy day I use HEOS to listen to the digital. There are a lot of great SACDs that I will still buy.
 

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What make you think they do a better job in vinyl? Recording and playback media is a completely different thing, you can have bad recording on vinyl and good recording in digital music. They are non related. If there is enough complain, they'll correct that for digitals.
Because statistically (unfortunately) this is a fact. That's why :)

It is due to the Loudness War. I wrote a paper on this very subject a while ago, which you can read HERE:

WHY ANALOGUE VINYL TYPICALLY BEATS DIGITAL (UNFORTUNATELY)

Like I said, personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE

If you spend some time reviewing that database you will discover that the versions with the highest dynamic range in the majority of instances is the Vinyl release.

.
 

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Because statistically (unfortunately) this is a fact. That's why :)

It is due to the Loudness War. I wrote a paper on this very subject a while ago, which you can read HERE:

WHY ANALOGUE VINYL TYPICALLY BEATS DIGITAL (UNFORTUNATELY)

Like I said, personally I find this to be an invaluable resource with respect to deducing which particular version of an album release is the best version:

THE DYNAMIC RANGE DATABASE

If you spend some time reviewing that database you will discover that the versions with the highest dynamic range in the majority of instances is the Vinyl release.

.
This can be fixed in the recording right? Nothing to do with CD or vinyl right? It's the fault of the recording engineer, not the CD right?
 
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