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If you want to play protected content you are right. But for none protected content it will be no different then Windows XP for most users. I blame the studios not Microsoft, if the studios didn't require this junk Microsoft would be less inclined to waste all this time writing content protections that aren't needed even among their enterprise users.


Peter Gutmann's paper though interesting don't present what it's really like under Vista. Gutmann has never used Vista he is simply going by design documents of what the Vista can do, not the way that average users experience. Many of those requirements are already in the HD-DVD and Blueray players that you are happily paying $500-1000 for.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by klover /forum/post/0


The problem: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html


The response:
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...d-answers.aspx


Looks like Vista will be a terrible HTPC OS.

..until all the crap M$ put in is broken, and it will be pretty soon.


But why do you need Vista for HTPC? Why do you need Vista if at all?


It looks nice, it is annoying as hell, it does not provide any revolutionary benefits?


No speed gains for OS itself, no easier operation?


Heavy hardware requirements?


Am I missing something here?
 

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Vista will be great for HTPC's! Native digital cable support (CableCARD), HD DVD, Blu-ray, etc. While you might say that HD DVD and BD playback can currently happen on Windows XP I think we know where that has gone in the past month.


Windows Media Center is huge in Vista. While I personally have some problems with a few of the concepts in it, you are going to find that it will be the platform on the PC and that other companies will have a hard time getting to the point that their feature set is comparable.


CableCARD is huge. Because of stupid CableLabs restrictions it might be a little "crippled", but if you want features like multi-room viewing, it's the only platform that offers it for HD content (PC or CE).


Sideshow is also huge. From the standard PC side to the media side with Sideshow-enabled remotes. This is going to create some create multi-zoom audio abilities.


Media Center Extenders like the Xbox 360 are the only devices that can enable multi-room CableCARD viewing. TiVo can't even offer it at this point.


HD DVD and Blu-ray, your choice. When AACS ships with Managed Copy this could also be a major thing, and it's likely Vista will be the platform for it (yes, we all know about the current AACS issues).


Overall, Vista will be the platform for HTPCs. You can either accept that there is "DRM" that could be potentially applied to media, but you need to remember that things like reduced resolution is something that comes from the content protection systems on the media. Doesn't matter if you use Vista, Windows XP, Linux (err--nevermind on that one), or a CE device it still follows the same rules.


There is content protection built into Windows XP, it just doesn't get much press. Either deal with the content protection in different devices, or just don't buy any of it. Support Vista or any other OS has no effect on the outcome of different content protection systems. Now, not buying the media and not supporting the formats might, you can make that choice.


Chris
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by galileo2000 /forum/post/0


..until all the crap M$ put in is broken, and it will be pretty soon.


But why do you need Vista for HTPC? Why do you need Vista if at all?


It looks nice, it is annoying as hell, it does not provide any revolutionary benefits?


No speed gains for OS itself, no easier operation?


Heavy hardware requirements?


Am I missing something here?

Look at the bright side. No one is forcing you to upgrade to Vista.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JM Anthony /forum/post/0


Look at the bright side. No one is forcing you to upgrade to Vista.

I already have Vista running on 2 of my 10 home computers.


I don't care about Cable Card, sorry.


Everything else in terms of Media Center is right there on XP for me. Vista is just learning experience for me.


So far I fail to see advantages, but to each their own, it's just me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by galileo2000 /forum/post/0


..until all the crap M$ put in is broken, and it will be pretty soon.


But why do you need Vista for HTPC? Why do you need Vista if at all?


It looks nice, it is annoying as hell, it does not provide any revolutionary benefits?


No speed gains for OS itself, no easier operation?


Heavy hardware requirements?


Am I missing something here?

(Speaking in general)


The hardware requirements are not really that big. If you want to run Aero they are a little bit higher, but Aero is hardly needed.


Basically all you need to run Vista are 512MB of RAM and a DirectX 9 video card. DirectX 9 video cards sell for about $40 on the low end. All the other specs are basically that of Windows XP. You have to expect hardware requirements to go up with new versions of the OS, the industry has kind of been depending on that for the past 20 years. When we get back to the point that we can run the latest OS's on 386s and have all of the new GUI features that are so popular, I'm in. However, much of the users around here would also be out of jobs when that comes. It would also kill the economy, assuming we could really do much worse then our path the last 10 years.


I think the operation is somewhat easier, but depending on your uses you revert back to the old way of being things. I've yet to great the organization methods used, I run "classic" everything. Kind of personal option, if it doesn't make the operation easier for you then don't upgrade. I'm not looking for easier operation personally.


It's all personal opinion, there are still people running Windows 2000 because they see no gain on Windows XP. That's cool, no reason to spend money if you don't need to. The only reason I'm using Vista is because I got it for free. Had I had to actually purchased it, I wouldn't be running it at all.


Edit: Replied after your's. "each their own, it's just me", perfect!



Chris
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL01 /forum/post/0


(Speaking in general)


The hardware requirements are not really that big. If you want to run Aero they are a little bit higher, but Aero is hardly needed.


Basically all you need to run Vista are 512MB of RAM and a DirectX 9 video card. DirectX 9 video cards sell for about $40 on the low end. All the other specs are basically that of Windows XP. You have to expect hardware requirements to go up with new versions of the OS, the industry has kind of been depending on that for the past 20 years. When we get back to the point that we can run the latest OS's on 386s and have all of the new GUI features that are so popular, I'm in. However, much of the users around here would also be out of jobs when that comes. It would also kill the economy, assuming we could really do much worse then our path the last 10 years.


I think the operation is somewhat easier, but depending on your uses you revert back to the old way of being things. I've yet to great the organization methods used, I run "classic" everything. Kind of personal option, if it doesn't make the operation easier for you then don't upgrade. I'm not looking for easier operation personally.


It's all personal opinion, there are still people running Windows 2000 because they see no gain on Windows XP. That's cool, no reason to spend money if you don't need to. The only reason I'm using Vista is because I got it for free. Had I had to actually purchased it, I wouldn't be running it at all.


Chris

Chris,


I am running XP on the Toshiba Libretto w/64MB RAM and it does what it is supposed to do (GPS, mostly).


On the other hand my entire shop which is quite big is running W 2000. Which pisses me off since 2000 is not really plug and play system.


As of getting V for free, congratulations!
 

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Quote:
"What about S/PDIF audio connections?


Windows Vista does not require S/PDIF to be turned off, but Windows Vista continues to support the ability to turn it off for certain content -- a capability that has been present on the Windows platform for many years. Additionally, in order to support the requirements of some types of content, Windows Vista supports the ability to constrain the quality of the audio component of that content. Similar to image constraint for video, this quality constraint only applies to the audio from content whose policy requires the constraint, not to any other audio being played concurrently on the system. As a practical matter, these audio restrictions are not widely used today.


Will Component (YPbPr) video outputs be disabled by Windows Vista's content protection?


Similar to S/PDIF, Windows Vista does not require component video outputs to be disabled, but rather enables the enforcement of the usage policy set by content owners or service providers, including with respect to output restrictions and image constraint.
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/wi...d-answers.aspx


BWA_HA_HA_HA!!


I don't keep wife, slave or OS who are my enemies. This is my policy, and it is going to be enforced.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by galileo2000 /forum/post/0


*URL*Snipped URL do to forum restrictions*url*


BWA_HA_HA_HA!!


I don't keep wife, slave or OS who are my enemies. This is my policy, and it is going to be enforced.

And the Blueray and HD-DVD players that many of the people here are fawning over will have many of the same levels of protections. Vista allows the enforcement of the same requirements that your players will enforce when they turn on the content flags.


I think these protections are annoying and ruin the content, but it's not Microsoft forcing these on your. It's the content providers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPGMD /forum/post/0


And the Blueray and HD-DVD players that many of the people here are fawning over will have many of the same levels of protections. Vista allows the enforcement of the same requirements that your players will enforce when they turn on the content flags.


I think these protections are annoying and ruin the content, but it's not Microsoft forcing these on your. It's the content providers.

Well. M$ seems to be run by the lawyers those days.


My OS should help me, not the others, whoever they are.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by galileo2000 /forum/post/0


Well. M$ seems to be run by the lawyers those days.


My OS should help me, not the others, whoever they are.

Well then the groups that make HD-DVD and Blueray groups would simply say no HD content on computers until they offer these protections.


Things work right now because neither group has put out discs with the content flags turned on. When they turn on these flags without an OS like Vista you would not be able to get any non-hacked HD-DVD or Blueray content on the PC.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPGMD /forum/post/0


Well then the groups that make HD-DVD and Blueray groups would simply say no HD content on computers until they offer these protections.


Things work right now because neither group has put out discs with the content flags turned on. When they turn on these flags without an OS like Vista you would not be able to get any non-hacked HD-DVD or Blueray content on the PC.


..and those disks will not be playable by the existing set top players as well.


I can see the future...I can see a huge class-action lawsuite.. some smart lawyers are going to get rich...consumers will get a $10 toward new DVDs...


Well, I lived without HD DVDs before and I can live without them after.


I challenge AACS to release DVDs with the flags on..Be my guests, please.
 

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I agree people will be unhappy once the content flags are turned on.


Myself I am waiting for version two or version three of LG's new multi-format player before I purchase my first HD disc format player. I don't want to end up on the short end of the HD stick.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPGMD /forum/post/0


I agree people will be unhappy once the content flags are turned on.


Myself I am waiting for version two or version three of LG's new multi-format player before I purchase my first HD disc format player. I don't want to end up on the short end of the HD stick.

Xbox HD DVD for $199-$40 coupon =$160 is not too bad.


I heard Circuit CIty now refuses to accept those coupons but they still give you 10% off, so it is $180.


I just ordered 3 HD DVD titles from Amazon, $19.95 each.


If I have to stick with them, so be it.


Nice try, AACS, that's all I can say.
 

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I looked at that myself, but at the moment the HD DVDs of either format don't appeal to me. The difference is nice but not worth the price per a disc. In 2-3 years the amount of discs available might make it worth it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisL01 /forum/post/0


Vista will be great for HTPC's! Native digital cable support (CableCARD), HD DVD, Blu-ray, etc. While you might say that HD DVD and BD playback can currently happen on Windows XP I think we know where that has gone in the past month.



CableCARD is huge. Because of stupid CableLabs restrictions it might be a little "crippled", but if you want features like multi-room viewing, it's the only platform that offers it for HD content (PC or CE).




Chris


cablecard is NOT huge! It is not a 'little' crippled. It is 100% a joke.

It will not work on homebuilt PC's, EVER, unless it is hacked or they change their ways! It will work on NO CURRENT PC IN EXISTENCE (aside from OTA channels, for a few too far from transmitters or in areas of cities with too much multip this may be an improvement, but that's about it).

Any video you record on it, will never be able to be played ever again if you ever buy a new computer when your old one becomes obsolete (as far as I gather or again unless someone hacks things or if it is on any channel not PBS,ABC,NBC,FOX,CW with probably a large majroity of cable companies).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by galileo2000 /forum/post/0


Well. M$ seems to be run by the lawyers those days.

Well if you're happy withouth the ability to play HD DVD, Blu-ray, or CableCard (probably DirecTV's thing too) on a PC, then I guess you don't need this stuff.

Quote:
My OS should help me, not the others, whoever they are.

We'll see how long HD DVD/Blu-ray playback on Windows XP lasts. Wth the paltry number of HD DVD/Blu-ray PC users, AACS wouldn't think twice about revoking the current keys. And $8 million is a rather large liability, and might make Cyberlink and Intervideo think twice about releasing updated version of their players with new keys, especially with Vista around the corner, and presumably some help/assurance from MS about security.
 
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